Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Poll taxes are unconstitutional. I'm surprised that somebody who cares enough about freedom to put that in their username doesn't understand that about our Constitution.
So if the gov. gives financial assistance to those who can't afford a photo ID would you support photo ID legislation for voting?
So if the gov. gives financial assistance to those who can't afford a photo ID would you support photo ID legislation for voting?
If the government made it free for those who couldn't afford a photo ID to get one, I could theoretically support that sort of legislation. The details would have to be sussed out, but at least in theory I could.
For example, what if somebody forgot that ID? Would they be allowed to vote provisionally? What if the ID gets sent to the wrong address? What about the homeless, or prisoners in states that allow prisoners or former prisoners to vote?
Voter fraud legislation has to be very carefully drafted. While you don't want to see it happen at all, you also have to be very careful not to disenfranchise lawful voters.
We can prevent fraud by punishing those who commit it. However, if we try to prevent voter fraud in such a way that prevents citizens from voting lawfully, then I have a major problem with it. If one voter who wants to vote lawfully cannot because of a voter law designed to curtail fraud, then I have a problem with it. Our right to vote is one of the most cherished rights we have in our country, and we should work hard to make sure that nobody is denied their lawful vote.
I agree with you, which is why we need to PROVE that people voting in these elections are 1) actually a citizen 2) of age to vote and 3) not a convicted felon. It's impossible to do this if we don't require voters to provide identification when registering, and again when showing up to cast the ballot. We're not cherishing that right if any Tom, Dick and Harry can show up without proving who they are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bc42gb43
Further, here's the text of the Twenty-Fourth Amendment:
Conditioning a citizen's right to vote on the payment of any form of tax is unconstitutional, no matter whether that payment is $100 or $1. Under the Constitution, even requiring a person to pay $25 to be able to vote is abridging a citizen's right to vote due to a failure to pay the fee for identification. I do agree with you that if we make a voter or some other state ID free to voters, maybe by providing the ID to the person upon registration, then I would have significantly less of a problem with it.
Well, I guess we've bridged the gap and have resolved our differences on this topic. "Free" IDs are fine with me, even though I believe everyone can pay for their own and probably already have one, even the poorest of us.
I'm sure the program wouldn't cost much taxpayer money since most people wouldn't need to apply for the "Free State ID for Voters" program since they would already have one.
If the government made it free for those who couldn't afford a photo ID to get one, I could theoretically support that sort of legislation. The details would have to be sussed out, but at least in theory I could.
For example, what if somebody forgot that ID? Would they be allowed to vote provisionally? What if the ID gets sent to the wrong address? What about the homeless, or prisoners in states that allow prisoners or former prisoners to vote?
Voter fraud legislation has to be very carefully drafted. While you don't want to see it happen at all, you also have to be very careful not to disenfranchise lawful voters.
At some point thought, doesn't there seem some requirement that the person attempting to vote should be required to have at least some minimal responsibility?
They could vote by mail.
They should have some ID anyway so if they die they don't do so as a John or Jane Doe.
I wouldn't be mad if they were given a state ID card for free if they have no money, but at some point to avoid all the fraud you have to say enough is enough.
At some point thought, doesn't there seem some requirement that the person attempting to vote should be required to have at least some minimal responsibility?
You're absolutely right, that's why we require people to register to vote. Maybe what we could do is allow people to register to vote at the post office, DMV, and other government buildings, and for those who cannot afford or don't already have a state ID, to get a picture taken while there (they have the cameras there already for passport/DL pictures) and give them the voter ID either right then and there or shortly afterward.
I agree with you that it's generally wise to have ID with you in the first place, and it's necessary for a lot of different things, but that's different than saying you must have an ID. There's no requirement for that, or for people to have ID on demand for police or things like that. But if we provide people with a free ID upon registering (maybe upon some showing of poverty), then I would have much less of a problem with voting ID requirements than I do with the voter fraud bills in many states as currently drafted.
I think we can do something about voter fraud, but we have to be careful about how we do it.
In regards to the portion in bold, how is requiring you to have an ID that's $14 in your home state not allowing you to vote? It's only $14. I grew up in a poor household, in one of the poorest neighborhoods within a state that's near the bottom rankings of poverty and I STILL easily found a few bucks (under $20) when I really wanted something as a kid.
If you really want to vote, you'll find the $14. Using the "not getting an ID on Election Day" is a red herring, since many states close new registrations weeks before Election Day anyway. In your home state of New York, for November 3, 2010 elections voter registration was closed on October 22, 2010.
New York State Board of Elections Voting Page (http://www.elections.state.ny.us/voting.html - broken link)
That's more than enough time to go and purchase a $14 ID card.
The issue is not about registering to vote, the issue is about requiring ID when actually voting... don't try to flip the issue. It is physically impossible for me to obtain an ID on Election Day even if it only costs $14. Even if it was FREE it would be impossible.
The issue is not about registering to vote, the issue is about requiring ID when actually voting... don't try to flip the issue. It is physically impossible for me to obtain an ID on Election Day even if it only costs $14. Even if it was FREE it would be impossible.
You have all year to get an ID and you wait until election day ?
Please..the sad tales of woe. If you know you need an ID then you don't wait until election day.
All these edge cases are not the norm. If you procrastinate and then cry you deserve to lose your vote for that year. Learn a lesson and get that ID and voter registration card in order for the next election.
I don't support voter ID laws simply because they are designed to prevent legal voters from voting. Remember those lines you see on the news on election day every 4 years, imagine how long they would be if everyone had to rummage around for their ID and then have that ID verified. (Hint it would take so long that legal, employed citizens trying to vote wouldn't be able to do so during their lunch break, or between shifts) Voter ID laws are a naked attempt at urban voter supression.
So you're saying urban people are too dumb to keep their ID's in their wallets? I've lived rural, urban and suburbs. I've always had my ID on me. If you have a legal ID, verification is not an issue. You show a driver's license, military or other ID and vote. If you happen to be 95 and never had a driver's license or other ID, a free ID will be issued to you. Presenting an ID when checking in would take no longer than showing it to buy liquor. Takes longer than that to find the person's page in the book & check him off.
The issue is not about registering to vote, the issue is about requiring ID when actually voting... don't try to flip the issue. It is physically impossible for me to obtain an ID on Election Day even if it only costs $14. Even if it was FREE it would be impossible.
Well, only an idiot would wait until election day to get an ID. Sort of like getting your kid a popular toy & waiting til Christmas Eve, ala Turbo Man.
Even now, you must register to vote within a time limit before elections. You cannot register on election day.
Next objection?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
