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This woman feels fine, because she knows the stereotype to which you refer was just that, a stereotype - something that appeared to be, but never was.
I was a math/computer science teacher for 35 years. My gifted students were equally distributed over both genders.
I also believe that abilities can be developed/reinforced.
For whatever reasons my mother is good at math and has mechanical and spatial abilities--my brother was the same. My Dad and I more verbal ability. A cousin on my dad's side female/off the charts in math and science.
The opportunities to develop skills are another factor.
I hope we are well past the 'girls are good at reading and boys are good at math' era.
lol--Thinking of professions like law and politics--many males with exceedingly well-developed verbal skills and of course, females, too.
And this gap is not cultural, so it cannot be erased through any program or policy devised by society. And if most IQ tests seem to focus mostly on visuo-spatial ability, such as this IQ test(and most others).
And if the highest performers on IQ tests are even more disproportionately male than would be indicated by the overall male/female IQ divide. And if having a high IQ, and possessing abilities in math and sciences have the highest value in our society, and should correlate with higher wages and success. Then, if all things are equal, shouldn't women basically be almost second-class human beings in our social structure?
So if it could be said that any equality between men and women can only exist through artificial means. Because men and women are inherently unequal. Then all talk of equality between men and women should be scoffed at as the ridiculous non-sense it is. And completely ignored as pure fantasy.
How does this make women feel?
I can tell you that the presumption is inaccurate. I have a measured IQ of 156 and had taken graduate level courses in math and physics as an undergraduate. I can solve my kids college math problems in a few minutes.
However, my wife is "smarter" than I am. I ALWAYS consult her for her opinion regarding medical situations (I am a physician, she is a nurse), financial matters, theological issues, as well as practical matters for raising our kids.
She has more common sense and practical solutions in these issues than me. She scored a 20 on her ACT.
I would be lost without my wife and am thankful for her guidance and support. I believe that many of the "contentions" that women are not as good as males in math has been a self fufilling prophecy. We have taken great pains to make sure that my daughter ignores the "conventional wisdom" that women cannot do well in math and science. She was a 4.0 in high school and was a 4.0 as a freshman in college.
Academic performance is related to IQ, confidence, and work ethic. NEVER tell a daughter that she cannot compete with males in ANY academic endeavor.
As a woman, I'm pretty comfortable with both my IQ and my math abilities. Though language is my first love, I am good enough at math to be fairly comfortable.
This woman feels fine, because she knows the stereotype to which you refer was just that, a stereotype - something that appeared to be, but never was.
I was a math/computer science teacher for 35 years. My gifted students were equally distributed over both genders.
I find it interesting that the article you linked literally says "Standardized tests in the U.S. indicate that girls now score just as well as boys in math.
But, for one, this is untrue. Everyone knows males score far better on the math SAT than females. Is the SAT not a standardized test?
I would be lost without my wife and am thankful for her guidance and support. I believe that many of the "contentions" that women are not as good as males in math has been a self fufilling prophecy. We have taken great pains to make sure that my daughter ignores the "conventional wisdom" that women cannot do well in math and science. She was a 4.0 in high school and was a 4.0 as a freshman in college.
Academic performance is related to IQ, confidence, and work ethic. NEVER tell a daughter that she cannot compete with males in ANY academic endeavor.
Precisely. 'You can do this'.
Powerful words to any child.
I can tell you that the presumption is inaccurate. I have a measured IQ of 156 and had taken graduate level courses in math and physics as an undergraduate. I can solve my kids college math problems in a few minutes.
You obviously didn't even read what I said, because "My presumption" was not inaccurate. Men are grossly overrepresented in the top tiers of IQ scores, and it is especially apparent in anything gauging mathematical ability usually in the form of visuo-spatial ability.
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However, my wife is "smarter" than I am. I ALWAYS consult her for her opinion regarding medical situations (I am a physician, she is a nurse), financial matters, theological issues, as well as practical matters for raising our kids.
Please define intelligence? I never said women were stupid, but that their abilities are generally of less monetary value to a man's. And that tests that try to predict an individuals intelligence are usually biased towards abilities that tend to exist at much higher frequencies in men.
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Academic performance is related to IQ, confidence, and work ethic. NEVER tell a daughter that she cannot compete with males in ANY academic endeavor.
I wasn't trying to say that all women cannot compete with all men. What I am saying is. If IQ alone correlated with wealth and status. Then at the very top of incomes, men might outnumber women 10 to 1. Almost all of the powerful and important positions would be occupied by men. And there would be basically nothing that women could do to remedy this situation where they are basically second-class citizens.
So in this world of inequity. Would we be sitting around talking about female underachievement? Or would we acknowledge that women have limitations that cannot be reconciled, and so any policy trying to push equality of the sexes would have to be a policy of unfairness and an excercise in futility.
I realize that women tend to be better with language. My point is that the skills men possess(and women generally do not) are of more monetary value.
Only if they REALLY do possess them and hold a job that utilizes those skills.
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So men should always be financially superior to women, forever. And if the goal for women is to have financial independence or equality with men. Then this could only exist by having unfair hiring/advancement policies.
For which jobs? All jobs?
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If that was the case, then would people be running around talking about how to cure female underachievement?
Does this have anything to do with the "how to cure black underachievement" thread?
Science and math are not the only industries that have "high value" and where one can make a lot of money. So women have every opportunity to be worthy and use the skills they posses and be valued in another industry/ job sector and make high wages if they don't get straight A's in math and science.
Female OBs and female actuaries and female engineers should not make the same wages as their male counterparts because a study states that men tend to have higher IQs and possess innate abilities in math/science and spatial relations? Should a male RN make more than a female RN?
The male McDonald's burger flipper should make more than his female counterpart for the same reason?
Does this have anything to do with the "how to cure black underachievement" thread?
Ding, ding, ding, ding. This thread was designed as a way to express my irritation with people talking about underachievement of any group. Because if we start discussing underachievement. It must be rationalized by creating a reason for the disparity.
Women should always underachieve in things like engineering and other scientific fields. If 3 out of 4 geniuses are men, then should we really expect women to represent half(indicative of their numbers) of all the most intelligence-driven fields? Do you believe the femininists out there, that see that "25% of all engineers are women" will be content with that number?
Feminists would consider women to be underachieving unless that are basically equal to men(or better). And they will ignore or marginalize anyone who says the differences are anything but social/cultural. If women a scoring lower than men on math? Can't be because women are inherently deficient. It has to be something else, anything else. And if you still insist there are differences, it must be because you are a male-chauvinist female-hater. Whose girlfriend must have left him for another girl(or some other ridiculous nonsense).
If you can somehow understand that males and females are different. Then you might begin to understand that we are all different. And our expectations for each group must reflect the abilities and limitations of each group. You cannot expect males and females to be equal in any field. And you can't expect Asians to be equal to Caucasians in any field, or blacks, or native-americans, or Irish or French or Germans or Russians. I get so tired of hearing this stupid non-factual drivel about equality.
Myth #1: Men Are Better at Math
It’s been established that boys tend to do better on math tests and are more likely than girls to choose math-centric career paths, such as engineering, technology, and computers. The real problem, though, is not an actual biological handicap, but the perception that girls are inferior at math. Many tests, like one professors at the University of Texas and New York University conducted, found that when they tested groups of people who were primed to think about the bias against women, the women scored poorly, but in groups that were primed to think about gender-neutral subjects, the score gap disappeared. This “stereotype anxiety” is a well-known psychological phenomenon in testing, and many researchers now believe it accounts for much of girls’ lower performance on math tests
This is the most thorough and seemingly unbiased study I have found on the subject. It is a rather long article on the subject though.
With the most relevant part of my argument being the section titled "Social Equality, or Just Biology at Work?"
And my point is merely that, men are different than women. All the cheerleading in the world doesn't fix biological differences. And I don't understand how anyone who has at least two braincells to rub together could possibly fall into the trap of believing that we are all the same. And that egalitarian mindset is extremely dangerous in my opinion. Because it creates unfairness, irresponsibility, anger, and resentment.
Does believing that men are better at geometry make you a sexist? Does believing that asians tend to be better at geometry than africans make you a racist?
When did stating scientific facts become an act of evil? Should I feel guilty because I am a man? Should I feel guilty for anything at all?
Last edited by Redshadowz; 07-23-2010 at 09:10 PM..
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