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Old 09-01-2010, 11:39 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,258 posts, read 45,002,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
The Constitution recognizes two and only two forms of citizenship. Born citizens and naturalized citizens.
Quite clearly, the Constitution recognizes a subset of born citizens, hence the "natural born citizen" requirement. Otherwise, the Constitution would merely say "born citizen." It does not.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,102,670 times
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Going back to something you wrote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
He confirmed the meaning of the Constitution's "natural born citizen" clause. Note in the Congressional Record that no one disagreed with his statement.
I remembered reading where that was not actually true, and in a few moments of searching was able to find it.

Educating the Confused – 14th Amendment and Bingham | Native and Natural Born Citizenship Explored (http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/educating-the-confused-14th-amendment-and-bingham/ - broken link)

Quote:
Clearly the opinion of one congressman 79 years after the federal convention is not worth much weight with respect to the original understanding of the Constitution. This is particularly the case when multiple members of the same 39th Congress, as well as a multitude of other earlier authority discussed throughout this brief, contradict him and there is no evidence any other Congressman in such Congress agreed with him.

For example, Rep. Wilson, the house judiciary committee chairman of such Congress, declared that “natural born citizen” was defined by the English common law, citing, amongst others, Blackstone and Rawle. Id. at 1115-17 (1866). Senator Morrill made clear that “natural born citizen” status is given by birth itself. Id. at ___. Senator Henderson, id. at pg. 387, Senator Davis, see, The presidential counts: a complete official record of the proceedings of Congress at the counting of the electoral votes in all the elections of president and vice-president of the United States; pg. 203 (1877), and Rep. Rep. Boutwell, see, Great Debates in American History: Civil rights, part 2 Volume 8 of Great Debates in American History: From the Debates in the British Parliament on the Colonial Stamp Act (1764-1765) to the Debates in Congress at the Close of the Taft Administration (1912-1913), United States. Congress, pg. 113 (1913) all stated that the president must be native born. Senator Trumbull, author of the Civil Rights Act, also stated the president must be native born and made clear that “natural born citizen” should be defined in accordance with the English common. Cong. Globe. 1st Session, 42nd Congress, pt. 1, pg. 575 (1872).
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:42 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,258 posts, read 45,002,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Why not? They had to pick a term to use. They picked that one.
Because it has a specific meaning, confirmed by Bingham, disputed by not one single U.S. Legislator, ever, and never disputed by the courts.

Quote:
It's not so hard.
It seems to be for you.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,102,670 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Quite clearly, the Constitution recognizes a subset of born citizens, hence the "natural born citizen" requirement. Otherwise, the Constitution would merely say "born citizen." It does not.
It does not recognize any such thing. You are forgetting the first rule of Constitutional hermeneutics:

"The Constitution does not mean what it does not say."

It never says anywhere that there are any subsets of "born citizen."

You really have to stop making stuff up.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,102,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Because it has a specific meaning, confirmed by Bingham, disputed by not one single U.S. Legislator, ever, and never disputed by the courts.
Oooh... perhaps you should have waited to post a response that was debunked by the immediately preceding post.

But as to "never disputed by the courts," ...

Have you forgotten Wong Kim Ark so quickly?
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Old 09-01-2010, 12:03 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,258 posts, read 45,002,798 times
Reputation: 13767
From the New Englander and Yale Review, precurser to the Yale Review:
Quote:
The expression 'citizen of the United States' occurs in the clauses prescribing qualifications for Representatives, for Senators, and for President. In the latter, the term 'natural born citizen' is used, and excludes all persons owing allegiance by birth to foreign states; in the other cases, the word 'citizen' is used without the adjective, and excludes persons owing allegiance to foreign states, unless naturalized under our laws.
New Englander and Yale review - Google Books
And:
Browse | Cornell University Library Making of America Collection

Obama is thus explicity excluded as eligible for President as he had British citizenship at birth.
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Old 09-01-2010, 12:10 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,258 posts, read 45,002,798 times
Reputation: 13767
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Oooh... perhaps you should have waited to post a response that was debunked by the immediately preceding post.

But as to "never disputed by the courts," ...

Have you forgotten Wong Kim Ark so quickly?
He was ruled a citizen, not a natural born citizen.

Note the ruling:
Quote:
The court ordered Wong Kim Ark to be discharged, upon the ground that he was a citizen of the United States. 1 Fed.Rep. 382. The United States appealed to this court, and the appellee was admitted to bail pending the appeal.
United States v. Wong Kim Ark

Really, HD, how many times do we have to go through this before your comprehension kicks in? 'Citizen' does not equal 'natural born citizen.'
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Old 09-01-2010, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,102,670 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Obama is thus explicity excluded as eligible for President as he had British citizenship at birth.
Ignoring that your reference is from an obscure law review and not from any actual law or court decision, you are changing your argument again. Yo have gone from the "two citizen parent" argument to the equally specious but completely different "no dual citizenship" argument.

The US Constitution tells us what a President must be. It never says what a President must not be. There is not and never has been a law on any American books that prohibits dual citizens from being President, as long as one of those citizenships is natural born American.
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Old 09-01-2010, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,102,670 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
He was ruled a citizen, not a natural born citizen.
And yet, the decision defines natural born citizen anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Really, HD, how many times do we have to go through this before your comprehension kicks in? 'Citizen' does not equal 'natural born citizen.'
I will correct your falsehoods just as many times as you repeat them.
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Old 09-01-2010, 12:12 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,258 posts, read 45,002,798 times
Reputation: 13767
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
You really have to stop making stuff up.
I've supplied NUMEROUS links to support what I've posted. None of it is made up.
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