Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
well, john jay seems to think that only a natural born citizen should be commander and chief and....... he got his wish ! what i don't see in his letter is any mention of the "two parent" theory.
again, do you believe there was any translation of de vettal before the ratification of the constitution that included the phrase " natural born citizen" ?
Okay, I'll point it out to you for the umpteenth time:
Quote:
It thus clearly appears that, by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the Crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, the jurisdiction of the English Sovereign, and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign State or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born.
III. The same rule was in force in all the English Colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the Constitution as originally established.
What about that definition by the United States Supreme Court do you not understand?
You're clinging to a specious and intellectually dishonest argument. Read the entirety of subsection 212. The meaning is quite clear.
Yes... and even ignoring that Vattel had nothing to do with any definition of natural born citizen, its clear meaning directly contradicts the United States Constitution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Obama, self-admittedly a British citizen at birth (fightthesmears.com), was born a foreigner.
He was also born a natural born US citizen. The Constitution tells us what a President must be, not what a President cannot be.
It says he must be a natural born citizen, and he is. It does not say he cannot be a dual citizen. So who cares?
And yet, John Jay on July 25, 1787, elucidates the meaning of 'natural born citizen' as expressed by Vattel's subsection 212 (in the original French, by the way - which is what the founding fathers read), exactly.
Nonsense. Jay's letter elucidates exactly nothing relevant to Vattel.
You are making stuff up again. You just can't resist, can you?
well, john jay seems to think that only a natural born citizen should be commander and chief and....... he got his wish ! what i don't see in his letter is any mention of the "two parent" theory.
How else would Obama have gained his British citizenship at birth other than through one of his two parents? It's really not that hard to understand. It just takes the ability to think critically.
Quote:
again, do you believe there was any translation of de vettal before the ratification of the constitution that included the phrase " natural born citizen" ?
Professor J.B. Thayer, of Harvard, in his Cases on Constitutional Law, Cambridge, 1895, I. p. 951, mentions the existence in the Harvard Library of a copy of the Amsterdam version of Vattel, entered as from B. Franklin. Another copy was presented by Franklin to the Library Company of Philadelphia. Among the records of its Directors is the following minute: "Oct. 10, 1775. Monsieur Dumas having presented the Library with a very late edition of vattel's Law of Nature and Nations (in French), the Board direct the secretary to return that gentleman their thanks." This copy undoubtedly was used by the members of the Second Continental Congress, which sat in Philadelphia; by the leading men who directed the policy of the United Colonies until the end of the war; and, later, by the men who sat in the Convention of 1787 and drew up the Constitution of the United States, for the library was located in Carpenters' Hall, where the First Congress deliberated, and within a stone's throw of the Colonial State House of Pennsylvania, where the Second Congress met, and likewise near where the Constitution was framed. (George Maurice Abbott, A Short History of the Library Company of Philadelphia, 1913, p.11)
Okay, I'll point it out to you for the umpteenth time:
Quote:
It thus clearly appears that, by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the Crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, the jurisdiction of the English Sovereign, and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign State or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born.
III. The same rule was in force in all the English Colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the Constitution as originally established.
What about that definition by the United States Supreme Court do you not understand?
Look at what it says, specifically: every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject
No one is disputing that every child born in England of alien parents is a natural-born subject of England. Although, the British Nationality Act of 1948 currently applies, which does indeed indicate that Obama was born a British citizen by virtue of his father.
No. Obama did not have two U.S. citizen parents, and was born a British citizen by virtue of his father (British Nationality Act of 1948). Obama was born owing allegiance to another country, making him a foreigner, which clearly contradicts the intention of 'natural born citizen' that John Jay elucidated to Washington and which was adopted in the U.S. Constitution.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
