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Old 07-07-2007, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Wiesbaden, Germany
13,815 posts, read 29,395,601 times
Reputation: 4025

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I'm really not a big fan of the UN, so the W.H.O. would also not be anyone I would seek advice from. They are extremely corrupt and obviously completely ineffective.
If you don't believe me, work in Bosnia or Kosovo for a while. I have..

and wasn't france the country that had something like 10,000+ deaths from a heat wave a few years ago? that was one of the craziest things I've ever seen in my life. Especially when the temperatures where I live were quite a bit warmer than the ones they were experiencing.. granted, I was in an air conditioned house, driving an air conditioned car and working in an air conditioned office.. but still, the best health system in the world (or a half a$$ed government for that matter) would not have allowed that to happen..

my ideal health system would be open to all, have the best research possible, stocked with every modern and approved medicine known to man, would be run as efficiently as World Cup sailing team, be corruption free, have the same services in every part of town and not cost any extra money in taxes and not impact any other service.. I wish
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Old 07-07-2007, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,026 posts, read 24,630,992 times
Reputation: 20165
Yes you do pay more taxes for your healthcare in France but being French and having sadly had to use it quite a bit the French healthcare is brilliant. You get the best and latest up to date advances, you have no waiting lists, you can chose your own specialist without referral if you don't trust your own GP in the yellow pages and the medical research is pretty darn good. It's efficient, well run and excellent at all levels. And it's also available whether you are rich or poor or even homeless. I am sorry this is not good enough for you though. I lived in the US for 3 years and what I saw actually shocked me. People living in developing world conditions, with no healthcare access simply because of their financial circumstances. I'm not quite sure where the success of 45 million Americans without coverage is ( plus many more who struggle to afford the one they have, and many many more who have basic stuff but not the good stuff). I know which healthcare I would rather be ill under. Not America unless I had a LOT of money. The WHO might be "corrupt" but what benefits do they have in lying about their findings ? Is the French government giving them bribes to lie?
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Old 07-07-2007, 01:11 PM
 
2,433 posts, read 6,678,600 times
Reputation: 1065
Chicago alone had 600 to 800 heat deaths back in 1995. And that didn't count many of the related heat deaths. So I'm not sure that's a quality gauge.

In the United States, if you have money, we have the best health care system in the world. If you don't, we have one of the worse. Whether or not we can all agree on our health care needs, this issue is a major problem in this country, President Bush better get off his butt and do something to fix this and take the issue off the table, or our next president just may try and fix this in a way that ends up making things worse than they already are.
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Old 07-07-2007, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Wiesbaden, Germany
13,815 posts, read 29,395,601 times
Reputation: 4025
the French bribe the UN? nah, that would never happen...

but seriously, I'm not defending the US in any way shape or form. I know the system here doesn't work and wouldn't even think of trying to make it seem that way. But, I don't want to live in a society like France has, or most of Europe for that matter. The taxes are insane and there's no incentive to progress. Then there's the completely ignorant immigration policy. France was burning for months when their muslim population started rioting. I have no clue why they let that many in, but also segregated them and basically ignored them.. who couldn't see that exploding?

as far as Chicago, that one was amazing too and I can't explain how it happened, but 700+ doesn't even come close to the 35000+ Europe lost in 1993 (http://www.earth-policy.org/Updates/Update29_printable.htm - broken link)..

and I'm sure Bush wishes he could create laws, but unfortunately that's up to Congress and every one of them should be taken out back and, ummm, you know...
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Old 07-07-2007, 01:38 PM
 
Location: in a house
3,574 posts, read 14,344,765 times
Reputation: 2400
I have excellent healthcare and providers. I see an advanced practice nurse for yearly suggested health maintainence (mammo, etc.) and take care of myself: I am height/weight proportionate, do not smoke, eat fairly healthy, and (bleech!) exercise. Should I require hospitilization, I know an excellent hospitalist who will communicate with my APRN. The healthcare system - that's a different ball of wax. I have healthcare insurance through my job, with a wellness provision. It is a benefit my employer "pays" for me You all are commenting on the business of healthcare. Not the same thing.
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Old 07-07-2007, 02:47 PM
 
2,433 posts, read 6,678,600 times
Reputation: 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by rd2007 View Post

Then there's the completely ignorant immigration policy. France was burning for months when their muslim population started rioting. I have no clue why they let that many in, but also segregated them and basically ignored them.. who couldn't see that exploding?
Most of them came in as illegals, much in the same way we have the Mexicans sneaking into the US.

Quote:
as far as Chicago, that one was amazing too and I can't explain how it happened, but 700+ doesn't even come close to the 35000+ Europe lost in 1993 (http://www.earth-policy.org/Updates/Update29_printable.htm - broken link)..

and I'm sure Bush wishes he could create laws, but unfortunately that's up to Congress and every one of them should be taken out back and, ummm, you know...
Chicago's death toll shouldn't come close to Europe's. But it is only one city. As far as Bush creating laws, he actually may with executive orders. I hope he doesn't, but at this point I wouldn't put anything past him.
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Old 07-07-2007, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Wiesbaden, Germany
13,815 posts, read 29,395,601 times
Reputation: 4025
executive orders are something for a thread of their own

maybe one day they'll straighten them out to where there is a cut and dry definition of them, how they may be exercised etc..
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Old 07-07-2007, 04:23 PM
 
2,433 posts, read 6,678,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rd2007 View Post
executive orders are something for a thread of their own

maybe one day they'll straighten them out to where there is a cut and dry definition of them, how they may be exercised etc..

Probably not.

Although if Hillary gets elected President she may use an EO or two to ensure all children are covered by some sort of health care plan. She'll tie the EO to healthcare for children or the handicapped or something similar.

She tried HillaryCare during the Clinton years, but there were too many republicans in congress to pass it. At least all at once the way she did.

This time around she would probably attempt to alter our coverage piecemeal. Children first, the retired next. Then the poor. In the end the middle class would have to go along with it or see their healthcare costs go through the roof.

In fact, if she does get elected we most likely won't be seeing our current healthcare system around much longer. For the wealthy such a plan would be a step down in coverage, for the poor quite a step up. She is making healthcare a major part of her campaign. It will be interesting to see how the candidates on the other side of the asile respond.
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Old 07-07-2007, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,026 posts, read 24,630,992 times
Reputation: 20165
Quote:
Originally Posted by rd2007 View Post
the French bribe the UN? nah, that would never happen...

but seriously, I'm not defending the US in any way shape or form. I know the system here doesn't work and wouldn't even think of trying to make it seem that way. But, I don't want to live in a society like France has, or most of Europe for that matter. The taxes are insane and there's no incentive to progress. Then there's the completely ignorant immigration policy. France was burning for months when their muslim population started rioting. I have no clue why they let that many in, but also segregated them and basically ignored them.. who couldn't see that exploding?

as far as Chicago, that one was amazing too and I can't explain how it happened, but 700+ doesn't even come close to the 35000+ Europe lost in 1993 (http://www.earth-policy.org/Updates/Update29_printable.htm - broken link)..

and I'm sure Bush wishes he could create laws, but unfortunately that's up to Congress and every one of them should be taken out back and, ummm, you know...
France did not burn for months. There were some riots in a couple of cities . I think the media as usual exagerated what was a civil problem and not exactly France's proudest moment but not the civil war that people have been led to believe either. The crime rate in France is much lower than the US and yet somehow France has been portrayed as some kind of nation at war with itself. It is not. The immigrant population has not been integrated as well as it should have and this has led to resentment from the natives and led to a situation which does need addressing. It hardly burnt for months though. The LA riots were just as bad.
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Old 07-07-2007, 04:53 PM
 
Location: in the southwest
13,395 posts, read 45,027,833 times
Reputation: 13599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer View Post
The LA riots were just as bad.
If not worse.
I am satisfied with my health care, but certainly not my coverage.
I am paying more than I ever was, but not getting the coverage I used to.
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