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In others words you want those who are not currently paying federal income taxes to start paying them, but can't explain what deductions or credits you would cut or eliminate in order to get them to do so.....
I'm sure it was a rhetorical statement, because the pure academics 0bama appoints to run our countries finances have no real life experience, and instead of demanding that 0bama and his academics explain themselves, you demand that some unknown personn a forums page, to explain their tax plan?
I'm sure it was a rhetorical statement, because the pure academics 0bama appoints to run our countries finances have no real life experience, and instead of demanding that 0bama and his academics explain themselves, you demand that some unknown personn a forums page, to explain their tax plan?
Some people have complained about those who do not pay federal income taxes and said they should start paying them. All I have done is ask how they are going to make them start paying. This shouldn't be that hard. If you have a certain tax belief, you should at least be able to explain it.
That would mean increasing taxes, on half the country.
Then so be it......what is the point of this thread? The Tea Party, at present is for not raising anyones taxes come January as will currently happen. The only people talking about raising taxes is the left.
Then so be it......what is the point of this thread? The Tea Party, at present is for not raising anyones taxes come January as will currently happen. The only people talking about raising taxes is the left.
well you have seen examples in this thread about those saying people who do not currently pay federal income taxes should start paying them, but without saying how they would do so.
I will leave off any social security, medicare taxes (will address that later if you would like0
And will focus on the differences in taxes between a 13% flat tax with no exemptions, compared to the current system under the income amounts and situations listed earlier. If you decide that you would favor some type of personal or spousal exemption and the amount as well as an amount for an exemption amount per child/dependent I will add those in later. For now strictly the 13% flat tax with no deductions, exemptions, etc compared to current system. All the figures for how it would be currently comes directly from inputting the data into mytaxburden.com (which comes from the Tax Foundation). These figures will be for the 2011 tax year and does not include the making work to pay credit which currently is $400 for singles and $800 for married couples.
Single person making $35,000. Currently a single person making $35,000 who does not itemize deductions will pay $3,400 on taxes. Under your scenario the taxes for a single person making $35,000 would be $4,550. An increase of $1,150.
A married couple with no other dependents making $50,000. Under current plans if that married couple does not take any itemized deductions the taxes would be $3,800. Under your scenario the taxes for the married couple making $50,000 would be $6,500. An increase of $2,700.
Married couple with no dependents making $60,000. Under the current plan the married couple not taking any itemized deductions, would pay $5,300 in taxes. Under your scenario the married couple with no dependents would pay $7,800 in taxes. An increase of $2,500.
Now lets say that married couple has two kids who are 17 or over but still living at home and counted as dependents (college kids, 20 somethings still at home). Under your scenario the taxes would be the same at $7,800. Under the current system it would be $4,190. So under your system it would be an an increase of $3,610.
Now take the same family, but the kids are under the age of 17. Under your scenario again its $7,800, the current system taxes would be $2,190. That would be an increase of $5,610 under your system.
Now for $75,000. For this I will take a married couple with and without kids like I did above. Under the current system I will also look at two different scenarios, someone who may rent or have a low or no mortgage payment and therefore take the standard deduction and someone who uses itemized deductions instead of a standard deduction ($5,000 in property taxes $1,100 a month in mortgage interest)
$75,000 no kids standard deduction. Currently its $7,550. If they were taking an itemized deduction with $5,000 in property taxes and $1,100 a month in mortgage interest, taxes would be $6,560. Under your system it would be $9,750. So an increase of $2,200 from someone who would take the standard deduction and an increase of $3,190 over someone taking the itemized deduction explained above.
Now the same married couple and same scenario with two kids/dependents 17 or over. That $9,750 is the same under your proposal, the standard deduction would cause taxes of $6,440, and an itemized deduction with the parameters above, taxes would then be $5,450. So your proposal would cause an increase of $3,310 for someone taking the standard deduction, and $4,300 for someone taking the itemized deduction mentioned above
Now same set up, but those two kids are both under 17. Same $9,750 in taxes under your proposal, the taxes for a standard deduction would be $4,440, and $3,450 for an itemized deduction with the above parameters. This results in an increase of $5,310 for a family with two kids under 17 taking a standard deduction making $75,000 , and an increase of $6,300 if they took the itemized deduction mentioned above
I will take the same approach for the $105,000 ( I will use 2 kids instead of the 3 I mentioned earlier)
Married couple no kids $105,000 taking the standard deduction, would pay $13,750, under your plan they would pay $13,650. Ooh you found a savings of $100. However, chances are most married couples making $105,000 aren't taking a standard deduction. Take someone paying $8,000 a year in property taxes and $1,500 a month in mortgage interest, they will be taking an itemized deduction (even property taxes and mortgage amounts far lower than that would be taking an itemized deduction). Once we add that into the mix, the taxes drop down to $10,150, so it would be an increase of $3,500 under your plan. Hell I will even throw in a much more modest $4,000 in property taxes and $1,000 in mortgage interest a month. In that case its $12,650
Enter two kids 17 and over into the mix and the taxes with a standard deduction drop to $11,900. So $1,750 increase under your plan, throw in the two itemized deductions in the above example you are dropping to $8,780 (1st example) for an increase of $4,870 or for the more modest itemized deduction $10,800 , which would be an increase of $2,850 under your plan.
Two kids under 17 those taxes under a standard deduction drops to $9,900 with a $3,750 an increase under your plan under a standard deduction.. To $6,780 and $8,800 under the two itemized deduction scenarios laid out, which would result in increases of $4,850 and $6,870 under your plan.
Lots of figures there so might be hard to follow. I didn't even go into other possible itemized deductions, but basically based off the plan you proposed, you would need to get to a little over $100,000 before you see any decreases in taxes under your proposal. Anyone making less would see increases. And even for those making a bit over $100,000 the only way you would see any decreases under your proposal would be if you have no kids you can claim as dependents and if you either rent or live in a very low COL area and therefore do not itemize deductions. If you have kids or itemize your deductions you would go quite a bit higher before you start paying lower or hell even equal taxes under your proposal.
Remember, my budget is (looked up old figures) 8% higher because it doesn't run the 8% budget deficit of that year. Flat tax will be listed as 13%/13% with 8% reduction/deficit spending.
Now, just so we can all be on the same page what year did you do the calculations on and/or what site did you use to calculate it?
Remember, my budget is (looked up old figures) 8% higher because it doesn't run the 8% budget deficit of that year. Flat tax will be listed as 13%/13% with 8% reduction/deficit spending.
Now, just so we can all be on the same page what year did you do the calculations on and/or what site did you use to calculate it?
That would result in huge increases in the working class and middle class (as my example showed), and would cut taxes for the wealthy. Also keep in mind I just did the 13% you had listed as the flat tax. If you add the other 13% you mentioned, and I added in the current 7.45% FICA, the tax increases on the middle class would be even higher than the figures I gave.
To do the calculations, for your data was quite simple, take 13% of the income amount.
For the comparisons to the current system, I went to mytaxburden.org (Tax Foundation website). I then punched in the various scenarios.
Then so be it......what is the point of this thread? The Tea Party, at present is for not raising anyones taxes come January as will currently happen. The only people talking about raising taxes is the left.
Which is a start. The size of the Federal Government is the next step. It needs to be cut back. The Federal workers are overcompensated for their output.
There are so many different "taxes" that one can skew the stats very easily. If I am an advocate for lower taxes then I can crunch the numbers until it works for me. There may be other hidden taxes left out, but I won't mention those. It's all fuzzy math. County taxes, personal property taxes. Taxes for new stadiums, taxes for roads, taxes for the monorail, taxes for environment. These are the things that drive people crazy.
It can be boiled down to this... Our tax money should be spent wisely. In the US, tax money is wasted, stolen, or otherwise lost way to often. I would say that only 40% of tax money is spent on public goods & services. And, (of that 40%) most of that money is not spent on things that I want anyway.
Congress should be fired... and some of them should be sent to jail.
Can you imagine Barney rank sharing a cell with Mike Tyson
well you have seen examples in this thread about those saying people who do not currently pay federal income taxes should start paying them, but without saying how they would do so.
Well , I would guess that most in the tea party movement would support a fair tax or flat tax, in which every one would pay the same %, so obviously if you are paying 0 and you are earning something you would have a tax increase......as it should be.
Well , I would guess that most in the tea party movement would support a fair tax or flat tax, in which every one would pay the same %, so obviously if you are paying 0 and you are earning something you would have a tax increase......as it should be.
The only way you can get those who are currently paying nothing to start paying something is either reducing or eliminating some of the deductions and credits (such as deductions per dependent, standard deduction, itemized deductions for property taxes and mortgage interest, child tax credit, etc).
By removing or cutting those deductions and credits you will get those who aren't paying any federal income taxes to start paying something. However, its not just those who aren't paying anything that uses those deductions, and credits to their advantage, most taxpayers do as well, especially the middle class to ease their tax burden. So by doing that you will also cause the taxes on the middle class to skyrocket.
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