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Western countries? Do you mean to suggest that human nature doesn't apply to everyone else? That other parts of the world don't have any greedy and violent people? No rapist's or child abusers?
Wow! That's news to me! I guess all those child prostitutes in Bangkok are pimped by westerners for the benefit of western customers, right? Or that all those rapes in the Congo were westener's too, right? I could go on and on!
I never knew westerner's were such an influencial bunch of people who have spread themselves all over the world just to commit iniqueties!
ps: If you dig a little, you'll find that Christian churches are full of those too. Know why? Because they're still just people, subject to the same things as everyone else and not a heck of lot stronger at resisting the temptations which afflict us all. The only difference is that they've accepted Christs' payment of what they owe God for disobeying him.
Au contraire! Jesus would love us all the more and weep over us!
Legalistic religions, with all their rules do. They do little more than breed self-loathing because they demand people be something other than...well,..people. Christianity is unique in that regard, no matter what some "Christian's" tell you.
I do think Western countries are and have been the driving force behind most evil on this world for quite some time now, be it directly or indirectly. It is not easy to admit that as I am a part of the West myself and contributing to the plight of people around the world.
No, I don't think so. He is said to have forgiven people who screwed up and regretted it. But we know we are screwing up and still continue to do it all the same.
I am no Christian, but when Jesus spoke out against materialism and greed, he has my support. I don't like the excuse that we are 'only' human and thus can't be better than we are. Of course I don't think that the majority of humans will ever come close to the ideals expected by various religions, but we could do way better than we are doing.
I do think Western countries are and have been the driving force behind most evil on this world for quite some time now, be it directly or indirectly. It is not easy to admit that as I am a part of the West myself and contributing to the plight of people around the world.
Just out of curiosity, how many third or fourth world countries have you been to?
I've been to plenty of them and I think I can speak with bold assurance when I tell you that people are just people, no matter where you are. They come with the same positives and the same negatives, the same hopes, the same dreams, the same prejudicies, the same....everything.
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No, I don't think so. He is said to have forgiven people who screwed up and regretted it. But we know we are screwing up and still continue to do it all the same.
I can't think of a single instance in scripture which indicates Jesus had any regrets for having forgiven someone. If you've got something which shows that, I'd like to see it.
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I am no Christian, but when Jesus spoke out against materialism and greed, he has my support. I don't like the excuse that we are 'only' human and thus can't be better than we are. Of course I don't think that the majority of humans will ever come close to the ideals expected by various religions, but we could do way better than we are doing.
So, you're among those who think mankind is inherently good, capable of being more than we are?
On what do you base such an idea when history itself shows otherwise?
I have not been to many, but a few, enough to make me think what I think. Culture has a huge influence on how people behave, which explains why people think and behave differently around the world. We are not all the same inside, I never believed in that idealistic theory. We do have the same potential when we are born, but the longer we are exposed to a certain culture, the more it decides about the structures in our brains that make us think and behave the way we ultimately do. Culture is in flux, though, which explains why modern Germans for instance are not at all like those 80 years ago.
Regretted referred to the 'sinner', not Jesus ^^
Yes, I do believe in moral progress, I am not one of those saying, well, there has always been rape and murder, so it must be normal. In my view people should at least strive to become morally flawless. We shouldn't rest on our laurels, just because we don't eat each other anymore like cannibals
I have not been to many, but a few, enough to make me think what I think. Culture has a huge influence on how people behave, which explains why people think and behave differently around the world. We are not all the same inside, I never believed in that idealistic theory. We do have the same potential when we are born, but the longer we are exposed to a certain culture, the more it decides about the structures in our brains that make us think and behave the way we ultimately do. Culture is in flux, though, which explains why modern Germans for instance are not at all like those 80 years ago.
Ah, the old nurture vs nature argument. We won't solve much by going into that, will we?
I will, however, take exception to your German comment. I disagree. Given the same set of circumstances, modern-day Germans would make the same choices their forebearer's did in the 1920's and 30's. So would we. The generation which handed the Nazi's the key to power was not so different than generations now or in other places and I offer, as evidence, Cambodia, Uganda, Serbia and even the United States right now as we're on the cusp of offering power once again to those whose politics are little removed from those of Hitler.
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Regretted referred to the 'sinner', not Jesus ^^
Ok.
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Yes, I do believe in moral progress, I am not one of those saying, well, there has always been rape and murder, so it must be normal. In my view people should at least strive to become morally flawless. We shouldn't rest on our laurels, just because we don't eat each other anymore like cannibals
No, we don't eat each other any more, but that doesn't mean we won't when the conditions are right. There are plenty of incidents, from mine cave-in's to the crash of the Chilean soccer team in the Andes, which give the lie to the idea that we're too far advanced now to indulge in such things.
Yes, we should always strive to do better, but with the understanding that we won't succeed. Time, place and human nature prevents us from ever becoming good enough.
By the way, that's the basis for Christianity. No matter how hard we try, we can't follow all of God's rules set down in The Law and earn His approval. We MUST rely on the shed blood of Christ for our own, individual, personal forgiveness.
If we truly are a Christian Nation, as I think we are, why have our politics become so vile and nasty? We have big problems here in the USA and when it comes to political discourse, we are not following Christ's words. I include myself into my observations. Why is this the case and how do we fix it?
We aren't... The majority of the US may practice Christianity, but that doesn't make our country a Christian Nation. No one is making us believe in God or else be killed. We are land of the free, not land of God.
We aren't... The majority of the US may practice Christianity, but that doesn't make our country a Christian Nation. No one is making us believe in God or else be killed. We are land of the free, not land of God.
No. The majority of American's claim to be Christian's, but they don't practice it.
Well, I disagree. History is a part of culture and we can look at it and learn from it. That is why now we can see parallels to the past that people in the past didn't see. And we can act accordingly, which doesn't mean that we always do, but still...
But the reasons for doing so now are very different from what they used to be, let alone the scope. I know of such a case where stranded Uruguayans ate the bodies of DEAD people in the 70s. They didn't hunt and kill them.
When you tell someone to try to improve, while also saying they won't succeed anyway, that is not very motivating, to put it mildly.
What you say about the role of a Christ in all that is one of the reasons I am not Christian, it is nonsense and serves as an excuse for people to behave the way they do.
No. The majority of American's claim to be Christian's, but they don't practice it.
Whether they are or claim to be, it doesn't really matter. 82% of Americans are "Christians", but that doesn't mean we are a Christian Nation. When a president decides to name America a "Christian Nation" and that we should all follow Christ, that will be the day I move out of country.
If we truly are a Christian Nation, as I think we are, why have our politics become so vile and nasty? We have big problems here in the USA and when it comes to political discourse, we are not following Christ's words. I include myself into my observations. Why is this the case and how do we fix it?
First of all: America is NOT a "Christian nation." This phrase is often used by Christians, but it is blatantly false, and it actually contradicts some of the deepest principles upon which our government and society are based. America is based on the principles of respecting individual liberty and individual rights. Christian morality (as it is actually practiced in daily life) often contradicts these principles.
Secondly: Your question implies that non-Christians are more likely to be vile and nasty, whereas Christians are less likely. In reality, Christians are just as like to be vile and nasty as non-Christians. Being rude has more to do with general personality than it does with what religion you claim to belong to.
If you say "Those vile, nasty people who claim to be Christians are not real Christians," then I won't argue, but I will point out that from some perspectives, the Christians who burned witches to death, the Christians who supported slavery, and the Christians who slaughtered Native Americans nearly to the point of genocide, etc. were all not really Christians. Well, maybe they weren't really Christians, but then by that definition, a lot "Christian nations" are not really "Christian nations."
Whether they are or claim to be, it doesn't really matter. 82% of Americans are "Christians", but that doesn't mean we are a Christian Nation. When a president decides to name America a "Christian Nation" and that we should all follow Christ, that will be the day I move out of country.
I won't disagree with you here and might even join you on the exodus.
There is a difference between being a "Christian nation," and living in a nation full of Christian's.
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