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Wow, what an incredible post. So according to you, Caucasians, a minority ethnic group who make up about 15-20% of the world population, have been so dominant in global human history that they singularly enslaved the entire world under the myth of white superiority?
If this minority group has managed to fool the entire planet Earth like that for hundreds of years then I guess they truly are superior. Give it up for da white man!
I suppose you've never heard of colonialism. Colonies are run my a small part of the population, they exercise control by way of violence, terror and economic structure.
White people didn't fool anybody. White supremacy was forced upon populations of people; they didn't accept it.
First of let me start of by saying I am Muslim guy. When I tell a stranger I am Muslim often enough they have tons of misconceptions. Then there are people I know and I tell them I am Muslim. They are usually surprised since I don't seem like the Muslims they have in their mind. Here is a short list of what I have seen:
1.) Americans think all Muslim are foreigners and they have a foreign home country to go back to. But I was born in US and only have US citizenship, I definitely don't have another country to go back to! I know a lot Muslim in younger generation are in similar situation as me.
2.) For some reason Muslims immediately associated as fundamentalist. But I know a lot of Muslims, like me, who aren't religious. For example, I would never take the Koran literally or say it is 100% right. I will admit there are lot of stupid things written in Koran when I read it last long time ago!
3.) Many westerners expect Muslim women to wear Hijab or Burka. No women in my immediate family or friends wear anything to cover their heads. Often some people are surprised to hear they are Muslim.
4.) A lot of Americans things all Muslim are extremely socially conservative. I most defintely am not. I am all for Gay Marriage, legalization of illegal drugs and prostitution!
I seriously do thing people then lump all these different people, like Muslim, into one big category. They really need to realize not all Muslims are alike!
People can be quite judgemental and ignorant of things unfamiliar to them. Especially around here where "different" is not embraced (I live in your town, by the way) or accepted by some. I feel the same way about the bible. Any religion can be distorted and used to further an agenda.
unseengundam several highly unfortunate things have happened with Islam to make people scared of it:
1.) Al Qeda has successfully attacked us with every conceivable profile of human being. The only thing that all have in common: They're all Muslim. Many seemed very peaceful. Some were born in the USA and were even proud American citizens at some point (or seemed to be?) So no matter how reasonable, peaceful, levelheaded and nonviolent you might seem to be, several somebodies who were just as harmless seeming have killed or tried to kill Americans enmasse.
2.) Israel and Muslim reaction to it. In terms of land grab, it's just tiny. See here: http://www.city-data.com/forum/19353963-post36.html . People in America and around the world see Muslims working themselves into a very angry very violent mass of people over Israel. And yet virtually every Muslim controlled nation in the Middle East treats Christians and other minorities like garbage -- and seldom with any amount of human dignity. Turkey and Sudan have massacred a ridiculous number of Christians. Muslims have massacred a ridiculous number of their fellow Muslims. It 's absolutely bizarre that virtually all Muslims love to obsess over Islam when there are far worse things happening in the Muslim world.
3.) It just takes a few forced marriages and honor killings that happen in the USA to get people wondering if that's what Islam is all about.
4.) You have a recurring theme: Liberal open minded Muslims (like yourself from the sound of it) meet some imman who inspires them to be "more like a real Muslim." And a year later they're trying to bomb a passenger airplane.
5.) There are too many extremely brash and loud Muslims around spouting off about how Islam will conquer everything in the world. It effectively makes all Muslim Americans somebody who might help them do just that given the chance.
6.) Unfortunately, some of the conspiracy theories about Islam have proven to be true -- at least in the cases of some Muslims. How do you really know if you can trust any Muslim?
The teachings of Islam are -- for the most part -- good words to live by. It's the extremely ugly things we see actual Muslims doing that makes the world scared of them.
This is a nonsensical post.
As I've mentioned previously, if Muslims are to be held accountable for everything another Muslim does in the cause of islam then white people should be held accountable for everything another white peson does in the cause of white supremacy.
Watching the Twin Towers go down in the name of Allah was to much for me to take . I am not stupid , Muslims have been here for years before you were born .
Your insults just add you to the list of Muslims I could do without . The "new" Black Panthers don't help your cause either .
The Muslims in Africa killing Christians is horrible , I feel I can do nothing for my fellow Christians . Lets not forget the Billion (not all) that want to kill all the Jews . Don't blame the rest of us for your peoples bad public relations . Your brothers earned it for all of you .
Your whining on a message bord tells me your just a typical American kid , to lazy to blow us all up .Loving Gays , Drugs and Hookers wow!
If you want to complain , complain to other Muslims . I have run out of be extra nice to Muslim pills.
Just as all Christians should be mistreated based on the bad PR done by Westboro Baptist Church and all whites should be mistreated based on the bad PR done by Hitler, right?
Do you realize how fallacious your argument is? You're basically justifying treating the whole based on actions done by a few. No one should be responsible for what another human being did. Guilty by association is primitive thinking.
Treat people as individuals, not as just another member of a group.
As I've mentioned previously, if Muslims are to be held accountable for everything another Muslim does in the cause of islam then white people should be held accountable for everything another white peson does in the cause of white supremacy.
YOU, sir, are nonsensical. "White" is not a religion, and Islam is not a race. Why do you insist on attempting to compare apples to oranges? And more to the point, what is your obsession with white supremacists? What does that have to do with this thread?
You make some crazy assertion that all white men are obsessed with muslim women (you wish) because some black marxist psychologist said they are? WOW, dude. Just, wow.
ETA: Just read over your "About Me" section... That explains everything. "I am an Existentialist philosopher, Socialist and Muslim."
"Favorite Books: the Qur'an, Thus Spake Zarathrustra, Beyond Good and Evil, State and Revolution, Communist Manifesto"
"Heroes:1)Any and all prophets of Allah, 2) El Hajj Malik El Shabazz(Malcolm X), 3) Karl Marx"
Last edited by AuDiBelle; 06-02-2011 at 09:57 AM..
Hey Zekester, do yourself a favor, never reply to any of my post again until you familiarize yourself with whatever it is you seek to criticize. I am neither an Afrocentrist nor anti-white. I am Existentialist. I do not know what makes white people tick, but I do know what makes white supremacy tick. How so, what informs me? 400 years of American history. Just as it would you also, if you've ever studied it. In regards to Muslim women, Frantz Fanon in his essay "Algeria Unveiled" has dealt with the obsession of the west with muslim women and the veil. It is not afrocentrist nor a pseudo-intellectual rant, it is an existential analysis of a contempory situation.
Yes, I read Nietzsche. You don't. I also read Kierkegaard, Camus and Sartre as well as some postmoderist writers, in particular Baudrillard. If your interested in understanding white supremacy from an existential standpoint--which I'm sure you're not--Lewis R Gordonis is an excellent writer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nietzschean Gangsta
I challenge you to prove this. Recant this position or be exposed as a know nothing.
I'm willing to admit that it's possible that I misjudged you, but then you're well on your way to doing the same to me. Of course I've studied American History. I don't deny or downplay the extreme negative impact that slavery and colonialism has had on our society, nor the mindset that made it possible, nor the way that it's pathology is woven into the very fabric of America itself.
While I'm not the existential enthusiast that you appear to be, I am familiar with all the philosophers and thinkers that you listed above and have, for the record, actually read Nietzsche's "Beyond Good and Evil" (which, except for the many disparaging comments about women, I rather enjoyed) and "Thus Spake Zarathrustra". Also, though it will no doubt come as a great shock to you, I am familiar with Lewis R. Gordon having read his first book "Bad Faith and Antiblack Racism" on the advice of a black friend of mine.
Also, I'm not interested in playing out the usual tiresome reactionary duel so common to City Data exchanges, although admittedly I did start things off on the wrong foot. My apologies. It's just that you hit a nerve and brought back some bad memories from my dealings with afrocentrists (many of whom where as racist as any Klan member) in Atlanta, GA.
What do you expect when you say things like "Whiteboys just want access to muslim women" and don't otherwise give a damn about them. Not only is that assertion wrong, it's rife with the same faulty logic, and irrational animosity usually attributed to white racists. Statements like that also attempt to deny the humanity of white people by painting them as unfeeling monsters wholly incapable of altruistic motives. The fact is that many white Americans (as well as those in Europe) are genuinely concerned with the state of oppression currently endured by women in the Muslim World under Sharia Law. Why is this so hard for you to believe?
Anyway, I hope I've clarified my position. Maybe we can have a more positive exchange.
As I've mentioned previously, if Muslims are to be held accountable for everything another Muslim does in the cause of islam then white people should be held accountable for everything another white peson does in the cause of white supremacy.
Ah but I'm not blaming all Muslims for the actions of the few or anything like that. I'm simply explaining why Americans and many non-Muslims throughout the world are going to do exactly that. Organizations like Al Qeda are managing to use Muslims of every conceivable background to attack Americans. Americans see and hear about the horrible things that Muslims are doing in other nations. The natural reaction is to be afraid of Muslims. White supremacists have yet to create sleeper cells of folk pretending not to be white supremacists and waiting for the order to strike -- and doing so on a very large scale. Muslim extremists have done exactly that.
Didn't say it was right. Didn't say I'm terrified of all Muslims. Just pointing out why a lot of people are.
YOU, sir, are nonsensical. "White" is not a religion, and Islam is not a race. Why do you insist on attempting to compare apples to oranges? And more to the point, what is your obsession with white supremacists? What does that have to do with this thread?
You make some crazy assertion that all white men are obsessed with muslim women (you wish) because some black marxist psychologist said they are? WOW, dude. Just, wow.
ETA: Just read over your "About Me" section... That explains everything. "I am an Existentialist philosopher, Socialist and Muslim."
"Favorite Books: the Qur'an, Thus Spake Zarathrustra, Beyond Good and Evil, State and Revolution, Communist Manifesto" "Heroes:1)Any and all prophets of Allah, 2) El Hajj Malik El Shabazz(Malcolm X), 3) Karl Marx"
White supremacy is an ideology just as religion. White supremacy is an ideology just as religion. White supremacy is an ideology just as religion. It's not hard to understand, however it is hard to accept. And that is your problem, not mine.
Frantz Fanon is one of the 20th century"s most brilliant thinkers. Your backhand dismissal of his work only serves to expose you as a non-thinker and anti-intellectual. Fanon is well regarded in Philosophical and psychological scholastic circles, his works are studied and his research is well regarded in acedemia, you should respect your intellectual superiors.
I don't doubt the OP's experience. There is no group that doesn't have members that have that experience. People have perceptions of groups that don't hold true on an individual basis. The OP's experience of people being "surprised" has happened to people based on perceptions of race,nationality, ethnic background, region of the country, religion, educational level, SES etc.
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Here is a short list of what I have seen:
