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Rothbard is an extremist nut, but I agree with him all too often...lol.
Thanks for the link.
hah hah I often find myself thinking the same way. I think he was more articulate in expressing his views when he wasn't ranting and actually focused on the actual theories.
(1) Expenditures as a % of GDP really has nothing to do with what you seemed to imply,
(2) That those figures don't reflect true U.S. spending... as it seems confined to federal spending, not total government spending... a perhaps closer figure being around 40 percent, at least by some accounts (more on that at the end of this message),
(3) That you perhaps quite intentionally left out every other country on that list but a bunch of handpicked ones that you wanted to include... and what seems to be artfully omitted from that list is the fact that most of the worlds worst dungheap countries are all right up there interspersed randomly on the list with your beloved favored European countries.... thus perhaps putting one hell of a crimp in your thesis that high government spending necessarily correlates strongly with some quasi-"socialist" oriented standard of living you seem to favor,
(4) Also, total government spending per capita is the only figure that matters when what we are trying to ascertain is how much is spent in comparison to the number of people who live in a given country that have to bear the burden of supporting that expenditure.
The GDP analysis really means nothing in that regard. It's a total extraneous garbage figure. Because of the mind boggling compexity of GDP, the fact that it has such a low correlation with a nations population, the correlation between the two metrics is so low that it's not even a useful proxy indicator that one can use in lieu of an absolute spending per capita figure.
1. Iraq 87.3
2. Cuba 81.4
3. Slovakia 66.2
4. Timor 65.5
5. Romania 65.5
6. Moldova 63.4
7. France 61.1
8. Seychelles 60.3
9. Hungary 59.1
10. Guyana 58.8
11. Czech Republic 58.8
12. Sao Tome 58.3
13. Sweden 58.1
14. Denmark 58.1
15. Iceland 58.1
16. Malta 57.9
17. Qatar 57.2
18. Kuwait 56.1
19. Belgium 56.0
20. Norway 55.8
21. Uzbekistan 55.6
22. Colombia 55.3
23. Italy 55.3
24. Netherlands 54.7
25. Austria 54.3
26. Finland 54.2
27. Portugal 54.1
28. Lesotho 53.8
29. Libya 53.0
30. Belarus 52.9
31. Cyprus (no Turk-adm) 52.6
32. Ukraine 52.1
33. Yemen 50.9
34. Greece 50.7
35. Brunei 50.5
36. Georgia 50.4
37. UK 50.0
38. Bosnia/Herzegovina 50.0
39. Bulgaria 49.9
40. Swaziland 49.9
41. Germany 48.8
42. Malawi 48.2
43. Canada 48.2
44. Latvia 47.7
45. Jordan 47.6
46. Egypt 47.5
47. Spain 47.3
48. Slovenia 47.1
49. Ghana 47.0
50. Croatia 46.8
51. New Zealand 46.6
52. Oman 46.5
53. Estonia 45.8
54. Zambia 45.4
55. Papua New Guinea 44.9
56. Angola 44.8
57. Namibia 44.2
58. Azerbaijan 43.9
59. Lithuania 43.9
60. Jamaica 43.9
61. Lebanon 43.7
62. Zimbabwe 43.7
63. Israel 43.6
64. Australia 43.6
65. West Bank/Gaza 43.4
66. Algeria 43.1
67. Uruguay 43.0
68. Serbia 42.8
69. Ireland 41.5
70. Venezuela 41.1
71. Saudi Arabia 40.4
72. Congo, Republic 39.2
73. Burundi 39.1
74. Turkey 39.1
75. Bahrain 38.6
76. Switzerland 37.8
77. Mozambique 37.7
78. Luxembourg 37.5
79. Kazakhstan 37.2
80. Vietnam 36.9
81. Rwanda 36.7
82. Trinidad/Tobago 36.3
83. Botswana 35.9
84. Macedonia 35.9
85. Syria 35.5
86. Peru 35.3
87. Cape Verde 34.4
88. Eritrea 34.1
89. South Africa 33.9
90. Kenya 33.6
91. Tajikistan 33.4
92. Mongolia 33.3
93. Indonesia 33.2
94. Malaysia 32.8
95. Gambia 32.4
96. Belize 32.1
97. Senegal 31.5
98. Bolivia 31.3
99. UAE 31.3
100. Kyrgyzstan 31.1
101. Dominican Rep. 31.0
102. Iran 31.0
103. Japan 30.9
104. Gabon 30.7
105. Morocco 30.7
106. Sri Lanka 29.5
107. South Korea 29.3
108. Chile 29.1
109. Madagascar 28.3
110. Panama 28.0
111. Pakistan 28.0
112. Albania 27.9
113. Burkina Faso 27.7
114. Uganda 27.6
115. Tunisia 27.4
116. Mexico 26.7
117. Paraguay 26.4
118. Nepal 26.3
119. Nicaragua 26.0
120. Ecuador 25.8
121. Honduras 25.6
122. Aruba 25.6
123. Togo 25.3
124. Benin 24.8
125. Tanzania 24.6
126. Nigeria 24.1
127. Equatorial Guinea 23.9
128. Sudan 23.3
129. Congo, Dem. Rep. of 22.9
130. Thailand 22.8
131. El Salvador 22.5
132. China 22.0
133. Ethiopia 21.8
134. British Virgin Islands 21.5
135. Cote d'Ivoire 21.4
136. Poland 21.2
137. Taiwan 21.2
138. Mauritius 21.2
139. Laos 21.0
140. Guinea 21.0
141. Russia 20.9
142. India 20.4
143. Chad 19.9
144. US 19.9
145. Cameroon 19.1
146. Argentina 19.1
147. Armenia 17.8
148. Philippines 17.7
149. Brazil 17.3
150. Hong Kong 17.0
151. Guatemala 16.7
152. CAR 16.6
153. Costa Rica 16.5
154. Haiti 16.4
155. Singapore 16.3
156. Bahamas 16.0
157. Cambodia 13.3
158. Bangladesh 12.8
159. Turkmenistan 9.6
160. Afghanistan 9.2
^^^^^^ So, yeah..... you go right ahead and try to use such an utterly ridiculous random set of data to draw a correlation of standard of living out of that mangled pile of spaghetti.
Sure is funny (more like fishy) how you selectively edited that list down to take out all the dungheap countries which are randomly interspersed throughout the entire list with little rhyme or reason, and left only some of the European countries you assumably favor, as if to give the [false] impression that this list actually correlated with quality of life.
Last edited by FreedomThroughAnarchism; 06-09-2011 at 11:28 PM..
(1) Expenditures as a % of GDP really has nothing to do with what you seemed to imply,
(2) That those figures don't reflect true U.S. spending... as it seems confined to federal spending, not total government spending... a perhaps closer figure being around 40 percent, at least by some accounts (more on that at the end of this message),
(3) That you perhaps quite intentionally left out every other country on that list but a bunch of handpicked ones that you wanted to include... and what seems to be artfully omitted from that list is the fact that most of the worlds worst dungheap countries are all right up there interspersed randomly on the list with your beloved favored European countries.... thus perhaps putting one hell of a crimp in your thesis that high government spending necessarily correlates strongly with some quasi-"socialist" oriented standard of living you seem to favor,
(4) Also, total government spending per capita is the only figure that matters when what we are trying to ascertain is how much is spent in comparison to the number of people who live in a given country that have to bear the burden of supporting that expenditure.
The GDP analysis really means nothing in that regard. It's a total extraneous garbage figure. Because of the mind boggling compexity of GDP, the fact that it has such a low correlation with a nations population, the correlation between the two metrics is so low that it's not even a useful proxy indicator that one can use in lieu of an absolute spending per capita figure.
1. Iraq 87.3
2. Cuba 81.4
3. Slovakia 66.2
4. Timor 65.5
5. Romania 65.5
6. Moldova 63.4
7. France 61.1
8. Seychelles 60.3
9. Hungary 59.1
10. Guyana 58.8
11. Czech Republic 58.8
12. Sao Tome 58.3
13. Sweden 58.1
14. Denmark 58.1
15. Iceland 58.1
16. Malta 57.9
17. Qatar 57.2
18. Kuwait 56.1
19. Belgium 56.0
20. Norway 55.8
21. Uzbekistan 55.6
22. Colombia 55.3
23. Italy 55.3
24. Netherlands 54.7
25. Austria 54.3
26. Finland 54.2
27. Portugal 54.1
28. Lesotho 53.8
29. Libya 53.0
30. Belarus 52.9
31. Cyprus (no Turk-adm) 52.6
32. Ukraine 52.1
33. Yemen 50.9
34. Greece 50.7
35. Brunei 50.5
36. Georgia 50.4
37. UK 50.0
38. Bosnia/Herzegovina 50.0
39. Bulgaria 49.9
40. Swaziland 49.9
41. Germany 48.8
42. Malawi 48.2
43. Canada 48.2
44. Latvia 47.7
45. Jordan 47.6
46. Egypt 47.5
47. Spain 47.3
48. Slovenia 47.1
49. Ghana 47.0
50. Croatia 46.8
51. New Zealand 46.6
52. Oman 46.5
53. Estonia 45.8
54. Zambia 45.4
55. Papua New Guinea 44.9
56. Angola 44.8
57. Namibia 44.2
58. Azerbaijan 43.9
59. Lithuania 43.9
60. Jamaica 43.9
61. Lebanon 43.7
62. Zimbabwe 43.7
63. Israel 43.6
64. Australia 43.6
65. West Bank/Gaza 43.4
66. Algeria 43.1
67. Uruguay 43.0
68. Serbia 42.8
69. Ireland 41.5
70. Venezuela 41.1
71. Saudi Arabia 40.4
72. Congo, Republic 39.2
73. Burundi 39.1
74. Turkey 39.1
75. Bahrain 38.6
76. Switzerland 37.8
77. Mozambique 37.7
78. Luxembourg 37.5
79. Kazakhstan 37.2
80. Vietnam 36.9
81. Rwanda 36.7
82. Trinidad/Tobago 36.3
83. Botswana 35.9
84. Macedonia 35.9
85. Syria 35.5
86. Peru 35.3
87. Cape Verde 34.4
88. Eritrea 34.1
89. South Africa 33.9
90. Kenya 33.6
91. Tajikistan 33.4
92. Mongolia 33.3
93. Indonesia 33.2
94. Malaysia 32.8
95. Gambia 32.4
96. Belize 32.1
97. Senegal 31.5
98. Bolivia 31.3
99. UAE 31.3
100. Kyrgyzstan 31.1
101. Dominican Rep. 31.0
102. Iran 31.0
103. Japan 30.9
104. Gabon 30.7
105. Morocco 30.7
106. Sri Lanka 29.5
107. South Korea 29.3
108. Chile 29.1
109. Madagascar 28.3
110. Panama 28.0
111. Pakistan 28.0
112. Albania 27.9
113. Burkina Faso 27.7
114. Uganda 27.6
115. Tunisia 27.4
116. Mexico 26.7
117. Paraguay 26.4
118. Nepal 26.3
119. Nicaragua 26.0
120. Ecuador 25.8
121. Honduras 25.6
122. Aruba 25.6
123. Togo 25.3
124. Benin 24.8
125. Tanzania 24.6
126. Nigeria 24.1
127. Equatorial Guinea 23.9
128. Sudan 23.3
129. Congo, Dem. Rep. of 22.9
130. Thailand 22.8
131. El Salvador 22.5
132. China 22.0
133. Ethiopia 21.8
134. British Virgin Islands 21.5
135. Cote d'Ivoire 21.4
136. Poland 21.2
137. Taiwan 21.2
138. Mauritius 21.2
139. Laos 21.0
140. Guinea 21.0
141. Russia 20.9
142. India 20.4
143. Chad 19.9
144. US 19.9
145. Cameroon 19.1
146. Argentina 19.1
147. Armenia 17.8
148. Philippines 17.7
149. Brazil 17.3
150. Hong Kong 17.0
151. Guatemala 16.7
152. CAR 16.6
153. Costa Rica 16.5
154. Haiti 16.4
155. Singapore 16.3
156. Bahamas 16.0
157. Cambodia 13.3
158. Bangladesh 12.8
159. Turkmenistan 9.6
160. Afghanistan 9.2
^^^^^^ So, yeah..... you go right ahead and try to use such an utterly ridiculous random set of data to draw a correlation of standard of living out of that mangled pile of spaghetti.
Sure is funny (more like fishy) how you selectively edited that list down to take out all the dungheap countries which are randomly interspersed throughout the entire list with little rhyme or reason, and left only some of the European countries you assumably favor, as if to give the [false] impression that this list actually correlated with quality of life.
Fine we'll go with your numbers......These countries have nearly twice the amount of government spending and they are doing just fine.
Right wing libertarian B.S exposed.
Oh and I'm sure you have some clever reason for wanting to include Third World Banana Republics in your list....like Tonga or some former Communist backwater.
But most rational people would limit it to modern, 1st World, industrialized Nations. Were the economies share similarities. Not trading beads with people who have a bone in their nose...LOL
But when has reason stopped any economic kook from from the "Austrian School"....lol
Fine we'll go with your numbers......These countries have nearly twice the amount of government spending and they are doing just fine.
Oh and I'm sure you have some clever reason for wanting to include Third World Banana Republics in your list....like Tonga or some former Communist backwater.
That list is basically your list, so to speak. I probably got it from the same exact place you did, which is why the numbers match. Only difference is, I was honest and did not try to cherry pick data to give people a false impression. I included the whole list, as it was posted, to let people see it for themselves (heaven forbid we should have transparency and let people look at all the data themselves, instead of having somebody just give them cherry picked data that they want them to see).
So, of course I have a "clever" reason for not wanting to intentionally deceive every single person on this forum. Hence, I included the whole list, so people can see it. Why shouldn't we examine the more complete list? Is there some reason the list needs to be hidden from people?
Are you afraid people might see that you selectively edited almost the entire list down (otherwise known as "cherry picking data"), perhaps with the intent of misleading every single person in this group into believing that the correlation you are trying to establish here - which is apparently something along the lines of more government spending almost guarantees an awesome country, just didn't materialize? I'm sure the list looks better when you edit out all the banana republics and other really horrible countries, though, doesn't it. Selectively chosen data often does look better.
Well, as that list clearly shows... with dungheap countries from top to bottom.... that correlation of "the more spending, the awesomer the country is going to be" just is not there... If it is, I sure as hell am not seeing it. I guess all those countries at the top third of the list are real paradises.
Iraq, Cuba, Slovakia, Timor, Guyana (all top of the list).... and on and on.... "lolz." I've never had the occasion to use that word before, but it is fitting here..... lolz... and there it is... that's your list of the worlds top paradises.... correlation baby, yeah.... friggin' paradise. I know where I am booking my next vacation.
Yeah, okay... you want correlation? How about you go dredge up one of your little lists which ranks your favorite countries, and then go correlate it to the top 1/3 of this list we are talking about it here. Go show me the correlation between this GDP to government spending list, and how all the countries at the top of that list will surely be right at the very top of the list of "top countries" in the various "quality of life" and "happiness" rankings that are so often posted, because surely there is a strong correlation, right?
If you want to have something that perhaps remotely resembles a correlation which we can at least entertain as an interesting phenomenon to observe, what the list has to look like is this: there has to be a rather pronounced separation between the "good countries" and the "bad countries." Almost all of the good countries have to be at the top of the list, and almost all the bad countries have to be at the bottom of the list, with perhaps a very few good and bad interspersed randomly for unexplainable reasons, just because data is never really that clear-cut, and there is typically unexplained variables that mess up the works, as simple metrics tend not to work this way (which is why the list doesn't prove anything the way it is when you have banana republic **** countries mixed together side-by-side with good countries).
Last edited by FreedomThroughAnarchism; 06-10-2011 at 10:52 AM..
You can't call B.S. until its practiced, and its not. Instead, you call for more government, more wars, more inflation, less transparency, less federalism, etc.
Time and time again, your recipe for success has shown to be a failure.
Your sorry ass assumptions are not resonating with me.
I never wanted an argument. You just assumed so and failed miserably.
Get lost. I don't care. Bye.
Way too funny. Why are you threatened? Why are you striking out like a petulant child? Sure you wanted an argument. You went looking for one, and got one.
You. Fail. Synonyms.
Don't care...sure you do. Or you wouldn't have been whining like you've been here.
Oh you can tell us that "more government" is not a recipe for success?
Well maybe you can explain why the highest standard of living country's governments are in some cases nearly 3X the size of the USA government, size for size, and they are doing just great?
In fact, ALL the countries ranked higher in standard of living than the USA have bigger governments, size for size.
And BTW the ONLY reason we make the top twenty is due to our abundance of natural resources on a per capita basis..the majority of the other countries use brain power.
Silly and single minded. You surely have heard that if the only tool you have is a hammer, the whole world becomes a nail. You have only one tool.....
There are many characteristics of countries that have nothing to do with size of government and impact their standard of living.
Try reading with an open mind.
More government is a recipe for failure and loss of freedom.
That list is basically your list, so to speak. I probably got it from the same exact place you did, which is why the numbers match. Only difference is, I was honest and did not try to cherry pick data to give people a false impression. I included the whole list, as it was posted, to let people see it for themselves (heaven forbid we should have transparency and let people look at all the data themselves, instead of having somebody just give them cherry picked data that they want them to see).
So, of course I have a "clever" reason for not wanting to intentionally deceive every single person on this forum. Hence, I included the whole list, so people can see it. Why shouldn't we examine the more complete list? Is there some reason the list needs to be hidden from people?
Are you afraid people might see that you selectively edited almost the entire list down (otherwise known as "cherry picking data"), perhaps with the intent of misleading every single person in this group into believing that the correlation you are trying to establish here - which is apparently something along the lines of more government spending almost guarantees an awesome country, just didn't materialize? I'm sure the list looks better when you edit out all the banana republics and other really horrible countries, though, doesn't it. Selectively chosen data often does look better.
Well, as that list clearly shows... with dungheap countries from top to bottom.... that correlation of "the more spending, the awesomer the country is going to be" just is not there... If it is, I sure as hell am not seeing it. I guess all those countries at the top third of the list are real paradises.
Iraq, Cuba, Slovakia, Timor, Guyana (all top of the list).... and on and on.... "lolz." I've never had the occasion to use that word before, but it is fitting here..... lolz... and there it is... that's your list of the worlds top paradises.... correlation baby, yeah.... friggin' paradise. I know where I am booking my next vacation.
Yeah, okay... you want correlation? How about you go dredge up one of your little lists which ranks your favorite countries, and then go correlate it to the top 1/3 of this list we are talking about it here. Go show me the correlation between this GDP to government spending list, and how all the countries at the top of that list will surely be right at the very top of the list of "top countries" in the various "quality of life" and "happiness" rankings that are so often posted, because surely there is a strong correlation, right?
If you want to have something that perhaps remotely resembles a correlation which we can at least entertain as an interesting phenomenon to observe, what the list has to look like is this: there has to be a rather pronounced separation between the "good countries" and the "bad countries." Almost all of the good countries have to be at the top of the list, and almost all the bad countries have to be at the bottom of the list, with perhaps a very few good and bad interspersed randomly for unexplainable reasons, just because data is never really that clear-cut, and there is typically unexplained variables that mess up the works, as simple metrics tend not to work this way (which is why the list doesn't prove anything the way it is when you have banana republic **** countries mixed together side-by-side with good countries).
Correct.
And then there are demographics which probably correlate more to success than any other factor.
And there are many other factors other than size of government. Denmark, for example is very business friendly.
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