Same-Sex Marriage: A Win-Win Solution (Jesus, single, issues, city)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb.
However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain.
There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.
“Brain scans have provided the most compelling evidence yet that being gay or straight is a biologically fixed trait.
The scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggressiveness resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex.
During the intrauterine period the human brain develops in the male direction via direct action of a boy's testosterone, and in the female direction through the absence of thishormone in a girl. During this time, gender identity (the feeling of being a man or a woman), sexual orientation, and other behaviors are programmed.
As sexual differentiation of the genitals takes places in the first 2 months of pregnancy, and sexual differentiation of the brain starts during the second half of pregnancy, these two processes may be influenced independently of each other, resulting in transsexuality. This also means that in the case of an ambiguous gender at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the same degree of masculinization of the brain.
Differences in brain structures and brain functions have been found that are related to sexual orientation and gender.
“There is a long-standing debate on the role of genetic factors influencing homosexuality because the presence of these factors contradicts the Darwinian prediction according to which natural selection should progressively eliminate the factors that reduce individual fecundity and fitness. Recently, however, Camperio Ciani, Corna, and Capiluppi (Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, Series B: Biological Sciences, 271, 2217-2221, 2004), comparing the family trees of homosexuals with heterosexuals, reported a significant increase in fecundity in the females related to the homosexual probands from the maternal line but not in those related from the paternal one.” (2008) New evidence of genetic factors influencing sexual... [Arch Sex Behav. 2009] - PubMed result
_______________________________________________
"I demonstrate that the number of biological older brothers, including those not reared with the participant (but not the number of nonbiological older brothers), increases the probability of homosexuality in men. These results provide evidence that a prenatal mechanism(s), and not social and/or rearing factors, affects men's sexual orientation development."
"Biological Versus Nonbiological Older Brothers and Men’s Sexual Orientation," published by PNAS (Proceedings of the NationalAcademy of Sciences of the United States of America): Bogaert, A (2006) http://www.pnas.org/content/103/28/10771.full.pdf
__________________________________________________ _______
"There's a converging line of evidence between the hormonal studies, the genetic studies , and the neuroanatomical studies. My research has identified candidate genes within these new chromosomal regions that could link together all of these different findings”
"Male homosexuals have had less steroid exposure during [fetal] development than male heterosexuals and... female homosexuals have had greater steroid exposure during development than their heterosexual counterparts."
"The determinants of sexual interest, in the sense of preferences for the same or opposite sex... appear to be caused by the neural organizational effects of the intrauterine hormonal events."
"A growing body of empirical literature suggests that the brains of gay males are less masculinized than those of heterosexual males, reflected in visual-spatial task performance -- a measure of cerebral masculinazation and one in which heterosexual males usually surpass females.
Several studies report that the cognitive performance of gay males is more typical of heterosexual females than heterosexual males.
Furthermore, the brain waves of gay males while performing verbal and spatial tasks are more similar to heterosexual females than males or significantly different from both."
Relationships among childhood sex-atypical behavior, spatial ability, handedness, and sexual orientation in men. Cohen KM. Arch Sex Behav.(2002)
Camperio Ciani, A., Cermelli, P., & Zanzotto, G. (2008). Sexually
antagonistic selection in human male homosexuality. Plos One, in
press.
Rahman, Q., Collins, A., Morrison, M., Orrells, J. C., Cadinouche, K.,
Greenfield, S., et al. (2008). Maternal inheritance and familial
fecundity factors in male homosexuality. Archives of Sexual
Behavior, 37.
Camperio Ciani, A., Iemmola, F., & Lombardi, L. (2008). Male
homosexuality partly correlates with an increased androphilia
and fecundity in females from maternal line
Vasey, P. L., & VanderLaan, D. P. (2007). Birth order and male
androphilia in Samoan fa’afafine. Proceedings of the Royal
Society of London, Series B: Biological Sciences, 274, 1437–1442.
Blanchard, R., & Lippa, R. A. (2007). Birth order, sibling sex ratio,
handedness, and sexual orientation of male and female participants
in a BBC Internet research project. Archives of Sexual
Behavior, 36, 163–176.
Savolainen,V.,&Lehmann,L. (2007). Genetics and bisexuality. Nature,
445, 158–159.
Bogaert, A. F. (2006). Biological versus nonbiological older brothers
and men’s sexual orientation. Proceedings of the National
Academy of Sciences, 103, 10771–10774.
Rahman, Q., & Hull, M. S. (2005). An empirical test of the kin
selection hypothesis for male homosexuality. Archives of Sexual
Behavior, 34, 461–467.
King, M., Green, J., Osborn, D. P. J., Arkell, J., Hetherton, J., &
Pereira, E. (2005). Family size in white gay and heterosexual men.
Archives of Sexual Behavior, 34, 117–122.
Camperio Ciani, A., Corna, F., & Capiluppi, C. (2004). Evidence for
maternally inherited factors favouring male homosexuality and
promoting female fecundity. Proceedings of the Royal Society of
London, Series B: Biological Sciences, 271, 2217–2221.
DuPree,M.G.,Mustanski, B. S.,Bocklandt, S., Nievergelt, C.,&Hamer,
D. H. (2004). A candidate gene study of CYP19 (aromatase) and
male sexual orientation. Behavior Genetics, 34, 243–250.
Blanchard, R. (2004). Quantitative and theoretical analyses of the
relation between older brothers and homosexuality in men.
Journal of Theoretical Biology, 230, 173–187.
Bobrow, D., & Bailey, J. M. (2001). Is male homosexuality maintained
via kin selection? Evolution and Human Behavior, 22, 361–368.
Bailey, J. M., Pillard, R. C., Dawood, K., Miller, M. B., Farrer, L. A.,
Tivedi, S., et al. (1999). A family history study of male sexual
orientation using three independent samples. Behavior Genetics,
29, 79–86.
Blanchard, R. (1997). Birth order and sibling sex ratio in homosexual
versus heterosexual males and females. Annual Review of Sex
Research, 8, 27–67.
Blanchard, R., & Klassen, P. (1997). H-Y antigen and homosexuality
in men. Journal of Theoretical Biology, 185, 373–378.
Hu,S., Pattatucci,A.M., Patterson, C.,Li,L.,Fulker,D.W.,Cherny, S.S.,
et al. (1995). Linkage between sexual orientation and chromosome
Xq28 in males but not in females. Nature Genetics, 11, 248–256.
Vasey, P. L. (1995). Homosexual behavior in primates: A review of
evidence and theory. International Journal of Primatology, 16,
173–204.
Hamer, D. H., Hu, S., Magnuson, V. L., Hu, N., & Pattattucci, A. M.
(1993). A linkage between DNA markers on the X chromosome
and male sexual orientation. Science, 261, 321–327.
Bailey, J. M., & Pillard, R. C. (1991). A genetic study of male sexual
orientation. Archives of General Psychiatry, 48, 1089–1096.
And yet that is not the subject of the debate here, so I don't need people calling my beliefs fairy tales or talking as if God is some cartoon character. That does not add to the discussion here.
The problem is, you and others validate your ideals regarding legal matters using god(s). Religion and law should never mix outside of a theocracy.
It's the same concept as Sharia Law - they're "laws" based off of religion.
The funny thing is, several people here who are using their religion as basis for law... well, they're pretty outspoken about the dangers of Sharia Law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea3821
1500? Do you have a link for that?
Ask and ye shall receive. Now, I realize it's Wikipedia... but each animal listed has a citation to documented research.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea3821
It would be a test to see how many would fall victim to the devil's work. Who would eat the forbidden fruit, as it was.
That description of god's work... sounds so petty and childish. "Hey, let's put these fresh baked cookies out with a 'free cookies' sign in a kindergarten classroom, then punish all the tikes who take one!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea3821
Compassion also does not mean we all have to just give in to whatever the gays want at any given time. I feel bad for gay people b/c they are IMO going to hell (I am NOT getting into a debate on this, just explaining my thought process) and I don't want them to be gay b/c I want everyone to be saved. I would say that's compassion. That is my main reason behind not wanting gay marriage. I will not condone something that is a sin.
So you honestly see no problem with laws being created based upon your religious views?
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea3821
It doesn't matter what the gays think on this. That's all anecdotal.
Did you choose to be heterosexual?
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea3821
I'm not claiming that, but if you want to say I am, what exactly are YOU doing? Your opinion on the subject only means as much as mine does.
Except that your opinion is based off of your religious views - something that should not be even slightly considered when discussing legal matters. Well, unless you can show a logical reasoning of why we should all accept your brand of religion and base laws off of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea3821
Not much, considering we do not have a direct line to God to know what he is thinking. We have to interpret the Bible's intentions, and most Christians agree that being gay is not what God would want for us.
That's nice. Thing is, we're not a theocracy. Christianity should have no say in our government. In fact, to quote another poster, in regards to Sharia Law:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist
If a key component of islam is to implement shariah law, then no--they don't enjoy constitutional protection.
They can believe what they want, but stay away from my rights in the process.
And, seeing as how marriage has been called a basic right of man (Loving v Virginia, for those who've missed it)... let's see how this works:
Quote:
If a key component of Christianity is to ban gay marriage, then no-- they don't enjoy constitutional protection.
They can believe what they want, but stay away from my rights in the process.
Or is there a difference between Muslims enacting religious-based laws and Christianity enacting religious-based laws?
Last edited by gallowsCalibrator; 09-22-2011 at 07:37 AM..
Andrea Camperio-Ciani and colleagues argue genetic factors favouring homosexual male offspring could make women more fertile.
Quote:
1500? Do you have a link for that? Also, that would be a disgustingly small minority of the disgustingly vast number of species that do and have existed on this planet.
It would be a test to see how many would fall victim to the devil's work. Who would eat the forbidden fruit, as it was.
Wrong. God controls the so called "Devil". And it wouldn't make sense to create such an elaborate test for a small minority. If God created gays for the sole purpose of making them miserable to see if they can resist "Satan", you worship a pretty evil god.
Last edited by gallowsCalibrator; 09-22-2011 at 07:39 AM..
Reason: Discuss topic, not poster.
Well, see, since the rest of us in this country are not compelled to live by YOUR moral standards, (whether based on your religion or just the way you think) it's really not up to you to determine whether any other couple is living "morally" enough to be called married, is it?
I'm not arguing against same-sex marriage based off of morals.
You have probably also said the sun "rose" or "went down" at a certain time...right? So you believe the sun orbits the earth?
Do you understand what a figure of speech is?
It wasn't a figure of speech back then, because heliocentrism was not discovered yet. The Catholic Church condemned anyone who challenged geocentrism for centuries, clearly indicating most Christians believed the Sun revolved around the Earth.
1 Chronicles 16:30
tremble before him, all earth; yea, the world stands firm, never to be moved.
The Earth moves, constantly. The Bible authors believed it was stationary in space, while every other object moved around it.
The whole point is, being homosexual (or bisexual or heterosexual or transgender for that matter) is NO MORE A CHOICE THAN IS BEING BORN OF A DIFFERENT RACE! Just because some of us "understand" your argument does not mean your argument is in any way based on FACTS.
Your statement is irrational. It's simply not backed up by the facts.
Even so, pedophiles suggest they have no control of their desires, but our legal system does not make accomodation for them. People are not animals. We do not have to submit to our basal desires.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax
You do not have a choice about being heterosexual.
Does that mean you jump on the first attractive woman you see? Does it mean that every heterosexual jumps on the first attractive opposite sex person they see?
No.
Why would you think it is any different for gay people?
You are confusing sexual orientation with behavior.
And you also seem to be obsessed with sex. Especially gay male sex. What's up with that?
I can control my actions. I don't expect government to create law that suits my preferences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax
According to you, marriage is about sex and procreation.
So what do you do the for the other 29 days, 23hrs 59 minutes per month?
I'm not the one arguing it's only about the physical aspects of marriage. You're the one with the silly argument that you should be able to marry who you feel attracted to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax
Does the cultural and historical context only apply for you when it suits you? Like slavery?
man-selling, which is what was practiced in 18th and 19th century America, was a horrible thing. It's not like the slavery of 2000 years ago. 2000 years ago a man could willingly enter slavery to pay off a debt. And a slave was not identifiable by skin color. Even so, the Bible does not endorse it, but actually requires a master to treat his slaves better than the surrounding nations did.
Quote:
The Bible addresses male rape (something that seems to have a history of being perpetrated by heterosexual men far more than homosexual men), idolatrous cult temple prostitution and idolatrous worshipping of pagan gods using ritual sex.
I'm not sure it really specifies that it was heteros doing it. It refers to the action--and it soundly condemns it.
Quote:
Nothing to do with homosexuality or loving committed gay or lesbian relationships in the 21st century.
And nothing to do with civil marriages in the 21st century.
You would do well to stop reading your presuppositions into the text.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero
It wasn't a figure of speech back then, because heliocentrism was not discovered yet. The Catholic Church condemned anyone who challenged geocentrism for centuries, clearly indicating most Christians believed the Sun revolved around the Earth.
I don't give a rip what the catholic church said 1000 years ago. I'm not catholic. The Bible does not present a geocentric view. If the catholic church made that statement, they were wrong.
Quote:
1 Chronicles 16:30
tremble before him, all earth; yea, the world stands firm, never to be moved.
And as I mentioned to someone else...what time did the sun set last night? What time did it "rise" today?
Quote:
The Earth moves, constantly. The Bible authors believed it was stationary in space, while every other object moved around it.
No...I'm not sure that's really even addressed in the Bible. Instead of posting a link to some idiot atheist site that sets itself up as the authority, can you, in your own words, please explain to me why you believe the Bible was wrong there?
Your statement is irrational. It's simply not backed up by the facts.
Even so, pedophiles suggest they have no control of their desires, but our legal system does not make accomodation for them. People are not animals. We do not have to submit to our basal desires.
I'm going to keep bringing it up anytime some knucklehead mentions that they were "born that way", implying that they can't control their urges.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
