Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If you're asking for numbers, I don't think you have facts to judge my response either. So, it becomes an issue of understanding whether they attempt to educate or not. Where, the point being, an increasing dependency on the middle men, which is the point Cuban makes.
If you've got an issue on that, you should DEFINITELY post a response on Mark's blog. I will look forward to you educating him on the subject. Can I?
So you yet again don't have even a guess. Interesting deflection yet again.
Instead of answering my question, you deflect it back to me. Nice debating tactic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone8570
Answer this: What exactly does high frequency trading produce? What physical product does it generate that benefits society?
And do you really expect middle class Americans to be able to design and run their own HFT programs? Because what you have on Wall Street these days is trading that average individuals cannot compete with. One of the reasons the market is so volatile. Please explain how holding a stock for less than a milli-second benefits everyday Americans?
Your assertion that the middle class can educate themselves on black box derivatives and HFT is absolutely absurd and not based in reality.
Easy. HFT grows the investment dollars in the market which increases cash flows in corporations which is what is used to fund new projects, startups, home loans, salaries and other expenses. Those are the physical products that HFT creates. I fully expect the average American to pick up a book and understand what market arbitrage is, and understand what shorting a stock is, and what a mortgage backed security really is. There is no 'black box' with HFT. It is only a black box if you refuse to pick up a book and read.
Holding a stock for a millisecond grows the net amount of money in a system off of which you and I have benefited for decades. The everyday American has been spending the money made by HFT for a long time now, and then we have the nerve to complain? Talk about biting the hand that feeds us.
So you yet again don't have even a guess. Interesting deflection yet again.
Instead of answering my question, you deflect it back to me. Nice debating tactic.
What would a guess accomplish? The least you would need is a baseline that you don't have. Besides, I'm not the one making claims so don't expect me to back it up with numbers (guessed or otherwise), you seem to have the numbers. Care to share, or would you rather do a run around calling others deflectors? Better yet, go post to educate Mark Cuban on the subject. Even though that blog is 15 months old, I'm sure he won't mind it.
What would a guess accomplish? The least you would need is a baseline that you don't have. Besides, I'm not the one making claims so don't expect me to back it up with numbers (guessed or otherwise), you seem to have the numbers. Care to share, or would you rather do a run around calling others deflectors? Better yet, go post to educate Mark Cuban on the subject. Even though that blog is 15 months old, I'm sure he won't mind it.
So yet again you avoid my point? My debate is with you, not Mark Cuban, so let's debate instead of continually deflecting.
The average financially sound household (not in debt, with three months of living expenses saved) spends 8.4 hours per month on financial planning and education. Households who are not financially sound spend an average of 4.6 hours per month on financial planning and education. Wealthy people (millionaires) spend several hours per week on personal financial planning and education. There is a linear trend between time spent on financial planning and education and personal financial health I can give you sources, but they are physical books I have. PM me if you want titles/places to buy them.
25% of Americans did not touch a book of any kind last year. Only 57% of Americans finished a complete book (again, of any kind) last year as well. (source: AP-Ipsos)
We have a fundamental education problem in this country. People would rather watch TV and hang out with friends than educate themselves on anything financial, and then we have the audacity to blame traders? Put down the remote and pick up a book. Just finishing a single book this year will put you in the minority for the country. How sad.
So you yet again don't have even a guess. Interesting deflection yet again.
Instead of answering my question, you deflect it back to me. Nice debating tactic.
Easy. HFT grows the investment dollars in the market which increases cash flows in corporations which is what is used to fund new projects, startups, home loans, salaries and other expenses. Those are the physical products that HFT creates. I fully expect the average American to pick up a book and understand what market arbitrage is, and understand what shorting a stock is, and what a mortgage backed security really is. There is no 'black box' with HFT. It is only a black box if you refuse to pick up a book and read.
Holding a stock for a millisecond grows the net amount of money in a system off of which you and I have benefited for decades. The everyday American has been spending the money made by HFT for a long time now, and then we have the nerve to complain? Talk about biting the hand that feeds us.
And you ignore the volatility in the market this type of trading causes...
Leading to lost wealth for millions of retirees. Oh yeah, thanks wall street lol
The market was much more stable and sound before HFT and derivatives trading came along. So how do you explain that?
So yet again you avoid my point? My debate is with you, not Mark Cuban, so let's debate instead of continually deflecting.
The average financially sound household (not in debt, with three months of living expenses saved) spends 8.4 hours per month on financial planning and education. Households who are not financially sound spend an average of 4.6 hours per month on financial planning and education. Wealthy people (millionaires) spend several hours per week on personal financial planning and education. There is a linear trend between time spent on financial planning and education and personal financial health I can give you sources, but they are physical books I have. PM me if you want titles/places to buy them.
25% of Americans did not touch a book of any kind last year. Only 57% of Americans finished a complete book (again, of any kind) last year as well. (source: AP-Ipsos)
We have a fundamental education problem in this country. People would rather watch TV and hang out with friends than educate themselves on anything financial, and then we have the audacity to blame traders? Put down the remote and pick up a book. Just finishing a single book this year will put you in the minority for the country. How sad.
You expect average Americans to understand credit default swaps eh?
Probability model
^^ Yeah, that looks real simple. I'm sure most retirees will easily be able to understand this.
What point? Correct me if I'm wrong, you have an issue with Mark Cuban's blog. No?
I was hoping you would respond to one of the numerous points I have made, but in typical fashion every time I make a point you deflect and avoid addressing what I said. If you don't want to discuss this issue (or are not capable of discussing it), then stop responding and let the rest of us have real conversations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone8570
And you ignore the volatility in the market this type of trading causes...
Leading to lost wealth for millions of retirees. Oh yeah, thanks wall street lol
The market was much more stable and sound before HFT and derivatives trading came along. So how do you explain that?
Volatility is short lived compared to gains. HFT elevated the market far beyond where it fell to. If you look at the net gains over the last 40 years, we are still very far from ahead. Stop looking at deviations from 2007 and start looking at deviations from gains over a longer horizon. Sure HFT creates a bit more instability in the short run, but in the long run the net market gains are much higher than they would be without it.
I was hoping you would respond to one of the numerous points I have made, but in typical fashion every time I make a point you deflect and avoid addressing what I said. If you don't want to discuss this issue (or are not capable of discussing it), then stop responding and let the rest of us have real conversations.
Volatility is short lived compared to gains. HFT elevated the market far beyond where it fell to. If you look at the net gains over the last 40 years, we are still very far from ahead. Stop looking at deviations from 2007 and start looking at deviations from gains over a longer horizon. Sure HFT creates a bit more instability in the short run, but in the long run the net market gains are much higher than they would be without it.
Dow from 11,723 in 2000 to 11,836 today
Wow, a 0.96% growth over 11 years. Amazing. Way to elevate the market.
I was hoping you would respond to one of the numerous points I have made, but in typical fashion every time I make a point you deflect and avoid addressing what I said. If you don't want to discuss this issue (or are not capable of discussing it), then stop responding and let the rest of us have real conversations.
The point you made was that you disagree with a single sentence from the blog, and I'm sticking with it. You chose to ignore what precedes and follows, or my invitation to take it up with the author and educate Mark Cuban on simple things are for those who care at Wall Street, that things haven't changed, that the purpose is still the same, unlike his claims.
But instead of doing that, you would rather accuse, run and hide.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
^^ Yeah, that looks real simple. I'm sure most retirees will easily be able to understand this. 
