Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If this isn't sarcasm I'm amazed! You think this recession is the lowly employee's fault? You want to get rid of PTO, in other words, vacation time, sick time, funeral time, "personal" time, etc? Do you really want to go back a century or so in working conditions?
No they just want to eliminate reality. Maybe maternity leave can be eliminated too since this is considered "laziness" in Amerika
No it's not, but in addition to contracting I run my own business, so I deal with business people, and I know how the industry works. A small tech firm tossing out a head NOC operator (or programmer) to hire an entry level guy is like Ford paying you to design a custom car, then firing you and hiring a bunch of junior mechanics to work on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
I didn't say people got fired for being older; I said that people who do get laid off when they are older have a harder time finding another job.
The real "hard working people" are too busy working to be on City-Data posting 100 times a day (often during work hours), spewing sociopathic drivel about the unemployed and the majority of unemployed people are too busy looking for work to bother with this nonsense.
It seems more than a little *odd* to me how you holier-than-thou types on here who claim to work SO hard seem to have so much downtime.
Don't worry, I'm not expecting an honest answer here, but I have no respect and no love for people who get kicks out of causing pain and misery to others.
It's a shame that this political forum has descended into little more than a place for cowardly sociopaths to vent their anger out at less fortunate people. I call them cowardly because it's unlikely they would even dare call someone a "deadbeat" to their face in real life.
I've already explained the concept of network freezes over holidays, which is why I'm here presently.
But then again, I wouldn't expect someone who hides behind a keyboard and calls someone a "coward" whilst talking about how they would be too afraid to call someone a "deadbeat" to be able to grasp such concepts.
No it's not, but in addition to contracting I run my own business, so I deal with business people, and I know how the industry works. A small tech firm tossing out a head NOC operator (or programmer) to hire an entry level guy is like Ford paying you to design a custom car, then firing you and hiring a bunch of junior mechanics to work on it.
Why? Because they're demanding a higher salary?
You just don't get it. They're not firing the contractor to hire an entry level guy ([sic] there are many women in IT these days). They're firing contractors to reduce staff!
Yes, older workers expect a higher salary in many cases. Many job apps have a question about "last salary". Some interviewers will ask salary expectations. Also, some businessses ass*ume that an older worker will want more money, w/o asking if s/he would be willing to work for less. Also, there is some age discrimination in that many hiring managers think older workers are "over the hill" even if they've been working all along which is, IMO, the best way to keep up in your field.
You just don'g get it. They're not firing the contractor to hire an entry level guy ([sic] there are many women in IT these days). They're firing contractors to reduce staff!
What? I know that. I was talking about the point you've been making for the last few pages. The one about older employees being laid off. Surely you remember that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
Yes, older workers expect a higher salary in many cases. Many job apps have a question about "last salary". Some interviewers will ask salary expectations. Also, some businessses ass*ume that an older worker will want more money, w/o asking if s/he would be willing to work for less. Also, there is some age discrimination in that many hiring managers think older workers are "over the hill" even if they've been working all along which is, IMO, the best way to keep up in your field.
So then you clarify your salary. That seems like a pretty lame barrier to employment IMO.
And in the vast majority of cases, more experience = more skills = more money anyway. In fact, most of the jobs I really want won't even look at you if you have less than 5, 8, or 10 years experience. I'm qualified, but I don't have the experience in a production environment. They wouldn't give me the time of day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathos
But then again, I wouldn't expect someone who hides behind a keyboard and calls someone a "coward" whilst talking about how they would be too afraid to call someone a "deadbeat" to be able to grasp such concepts.
You're too much of a coward to call me a coward, you coward.
If the american consumer demanded american made products those jobs would be back by months end.
Ever see the movie " who killed the electric car" When an LA times auto reporter was asked the question he responded " If the american consumer demanded a car that ran on milk, gm would makeone"
And then a year later, those jobs would be offshored because Americans weren't buying the products due to them being too expensive.
I don't have a problem with a company offering a job to some slug with marginal at best job skills whereby all he does for 8 hours is push a button on an assembly line. What I do have a problem with is paying a premium for what gets produced as a result of that button pusher because he thinks pushing a button is worth $25 an hour.
You still don't get it. You don't even know what's going to be valuable in 20 years. Between now and then you will probably marry, have children, buy a house, get sick, get well, worry about your kids getting sick/getting well, maybe get divorced, lose a parent/sibling/other close family member - you get the picture. All of those things will get in the way of you "learning new stuff every day to stay valuable." Believe me when I tell you that life will crap all over your "back up plans." We'll see how "ambitious" you sound when that happens...
As I said, 23 years old and you think you have all the answers...
He might not have all the answers, but he's got more answers than you do on this topic.
Will he know what will be valuable in 20 years? No. But he'll know what will be valuable a year or 2 before it becomes valuable, and my guess is when it does become valuable, he'll already know it. This industry, it's not about knowing what's coming 20 years down the pipe. It's simply knowing what's coming next. And, once you identify what's coming next, telling your company to send you to training for what's coming next. I've been in this industry for going on 15 years next year - a long time in this field, given that I was in before the industry exploded in the late 90's. I've seen so many things come and go - remarkable changes that people such as most of you aren't even aware ever even happened because it was "behind the scenes". All you know is your user experience was enhanced. The ones who make it part of their job to keep current will continue to be successful, and the ones who don't will continue to fall by the wayside. That's how it is.
You guys predicting doom and gloom and "you can't predict what's going to happen"? You're the same type of reactionary people who lose your jobs and then talk about what a struggle it is for you to get back on the horse or keep yourself sustained, all because you got complacent, you didn't set anything aside, you didn't keep your skills fresh, you didn't make any effort to keep up to date. Because you never think about what's next. For technology people? It's ingrained into our psyches. It's one of the first things we learn on the job. That's why we're always prepared. Welcome to the 21st century. We move fast here.
When the "mass layoff fairy" waves her wand there is no "critical skill" exemption.
Over my 20+ years in corporate I watched highly skilled workers get the axe because the dept they were in got vaporized. The number crunchers in HR only care about the bottom line for a company which is revenue.
Don't count yourself as too skilled to be let go; instead count yourself lucky for not being "selected" yet.
Again, you don't understand the industry. At all.
One of the most beautiful things about this industry is this: Even IF some 20 year old hotshot makes it onto the scene, he's not going to take someone else's job; there's already an unfilled job waiting for him. Short supply, high demand.
Quote:
And you realize that India/China/etc are graduating IT majors in the thousands and they can do the same work for a fraction of the cost of a US IT worker.
And you realize that those IT majors only spend 2 years in uni for a bachelors, 3-4 for a Master's, and it's been proven time and again that the only thing they're typically good for is building something *exactly* as you describe it? They lack the ability to think outside the box, add features, or expand upon an idea. Why do you think there's been a recent boom in domestic programming demand lately? Companies that shipped programming jobs overseas over the last decade or so are starting to bring them back in because they realize their product is suffering.
And on the operations (hardware) side, these foreign workers aren't even a consideration.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
