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They don't talk much about airplanes and radios and televisions either..
They did say that black people were only 3/5ths of a person, you agree with that? Or can you see that times change?
Once again, you put your abject ignorance on display. I do agree with it because it was a compromise intended to help overturn slavery.
If the slaves were counted 1 for 1 (instead of 3/5) that south would have a higher population count than the north and, hence, more members of the House of Reps, and, hence, stop all attempts to undo slavery.
Counting them as only 3/5 gave the North a higher count, more Members, and hence, slavery was overturned.
Now, Mr. Ignorant Ribbons, you know the Rest of the Story.
Try having a 10 year old sign a legal contract and try to get that contract enforced, then get back to me...
That 10 year old can indeed sign and enforce a contract. YOU can not enforce it. Why is this difficult for you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem
FYI - I voted YES on prop 8.
A 9 year old CANNOT enter into a contract. Their guardian/parent signs the contract for them because they are below the legal age to enter into a contract.
they absolutely can sign and enforce contracts. YOU however being the adult, can not enforce it, and no matter how many times you guys sit here in denial, you are wrong.
Parents dont have the legal authority to enter into a contract to force their children to do something, the only reason why parents sign contracts is to ensure liability in the event of damage.
I can not sign a contract saying my children are going to cut my neighbors grass because NO ONE can enter into a contract to enforce a 3rd party to do something.
Where on gods earth did you guys get your legal education from? Ask for a refund.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem
And yes, pedophilia disturbs me more than homosexuality.
Thats exactly right, directly disputing the fact that if one can sign a contract, then they should be able to get married. That was the discussion that started this, and since children CAN sign contracts, then clearly that means children should be allowed to get married, right?
They already do. Marriage laws allow children as young as 13 to marry "with consent."
The point is that you need to have a logical reason and basis for restricting the participants to a contract of any kind. Religion is neither rational, nor logical.
I have yet to hear any compelling reason that does not somehow trace back to religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
Society deems it wrong. Do you now think people should be allowed to marry their parents?
If they want, I say go for it. If people can give non-religious, logical and rational reasons against it, then I am open to hear reasons why they should not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
So now it should be socially acceptable that I screw my parents? My god, its funny to see liberals who demand everyone buy health insurance, now argue that anything should go.
"Socially acceptable" and "allowable under law" are not the same thing. Some things are perfectly legal, yet socially unacceptable.
The government shouldn't get involved in enforcing social (and ever changing) mores.
(BTW: health insurance/liberals/whatever... no correlation at all to "anything goes")
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
But who decides what is compelling?
Interesting question. I don't think it's black or white proposition. Some appeal to something other than "religion" "Adam and Eve" or "tradition" would be compelling.
Maybe some version of the harm principle could be a good guide that preserves freedom and liberty and doesn't suffer foolish faith based reasons for tyranny.
WRONG.. Anyone who has had a beginners law course will tell you that a contract entered into by a minor is VOIDABLE, not void. A child is fully able to enter into a contract and fully enforce it through a court of law, the adult however does not have the same protection.
Semantics what use is a contract if one party can unilaterally void it?
Good news. This marriage debate is silly and going on for far too long. Gay marriage does nothing to take away any rights of straight marriage. They have no impact on each other.
The gay couple who live nextdoor to my parents in Iowa got married a year ago. No one cared. Everyone who wants to go to church still does. The neighborhood didn't burn down. It didn't destroy my parents marriage. People were adults about it and did what they do whenever anyone gets married, said congrats and moved on.
Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Iceland, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, 6 of our states, many other cities and districts around the world have gay marriage and no one is falling into a pit of fire.
If you don't like gay marriage then don't get one. It's hardly like gay people are going to be racing down to your Catholic church during mass and demanding to get married. Gay people respect organized religion about as much as organized religion accepts gay people or anyone else they don't specifically agree with.
Relgious people are backing themselves into a corner on the topic, screaming and yelling. The thing they don't understand is that everyone else DOESN'T CARE. Everyone else just wants them to go away. Go complain amongst themselves. The more you throw fits about every little thing that isn't going your way, the more you're just going to marginalize yourself to the extremes of normal society.
Those who fall for anything, stand for nothing. Also I am not religious I haven't been to church outside of a marriage, baptism or funeral in about a decade.
My objection to gay marriage is based on tradition and that throughout the entire span of human history, throughout diverse cultures even those that were tolerant of homosexuality. There has never been an institution called gay marriage until the West in its infinite wisdom decided so.
It's the height of arrogance and hubris to institute such an institution now.
That 10 year old can indeed sign and enforce a contract. YOU can not enforce it. Why is this difficult for you?
they absolutely can sign and enforce contracts. YOU however being the adult, can not enforce it, and no matter how many times you guys sit here in denial, you are wrong.
If the marriage contract is not equally enforceable, or which lack mutuality of obligation among the parties entering into the contract, then you have just identified a compelling reason why adult/child marriage contracts should not be allowed.
That 10 year old can indeed sign and enforce a contract. YOU can not enforce it. Why is this difficult for you?
they absolutely can sign and enforce contracts. YOU however being the adult, can not enforce it, and no matter how many times you guys sit here in denial, you are wrong.
Parents dont have the legal authority to enter into a contract to force their children to do something, the only reason why parents sign contracts is to ensure liability in the event of damage.
I can not sign a contract saying my children are going to cut my neighbors grass because NO ONE can enter into a contract to enforce a 3rd party to do something.
Quote:
For example, in any jurisdiction, the age at which an individual is allowed to exercise the franchise (vote), leave school without taking a diploma, enter into legally binding contracts (other than for necessaries, to which no age of license applies), operate a motor vehicle, purchase and consume alcoholic beverages, and so on – these are all ages of license, at which the law permits an individual to perform certain acts and exercise certain rights, with or without any restrictions.
They already do. Marriage laws allow children as young as 13 to marry "with consent."
The point is that you need to have a logical reason and basis for restricting the participants to a contract of any kind. Religion is neither rational, nor logical.
I have yet to hear any compelling reason that does not somehow trace back to religion.
Not one person has mentioned religion on this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7
If they want, I say go for it. If people can give non-religious, logical and rational reasons against it, then I am open to hear reasons why they should not.
Um, because doing so leads to retarded children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7
"Socially acceptable" and "allowable under law" are not the same thing. Some things are perfectly legal, yet socially unacceptable.
The government shouldn't get involved in enforcing social (and ever changing) mores.
(BTW: health insurance/liberals/whatever... no correlation at all to "anything goes")
But liberals just argued that government has the authority to demand I buy a product I dont want, but now you are saying that they dont have the authority to establish laws for marriage? Why the seperation? I see no compelling reason to support national healthcare, but oppose government setting marriage stadards
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7
Interesting question. I don't think it's black or white proposition. Some appeal to something other than "religion" "Adam and Eve" or "tradition" would be compelling.
Maybe some version of the harm principle could be a good guide that preserves freedom and liberty and doesn't suffer foolish faith based reasons for tyranny.
The reason we have states is so the citizens of individual states can determine whats compelling. Who are we to think that people from another state, say NY, should dictate what people of California must do?
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