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Old 10-21-2007, 07:08 PM
 
3,570 posts, read 3,759,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn View Post
But I believe that these do qualify as "rich". As the range lowers, I would suspect the the percentage of self-made wealth increases, far from your contention of "rarely".
I'm sure you are talking about people like Bill Gates.

I might point out, that Bill Gates may not have come from a Forbes family, but he was hardly from an impoverished background. When he wanted to tinker with computers as a young lad, his parents had enough money to buy him his gadgets. (And in those days, a computer was quite a luxury good.)

Very few "self-made" billionaires came from a truly disadvantaged background.
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:14 PM
 
3,570 posts, read 3,759,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn View Post
The last couple of generations, not coincidentally beginning during the invention of Johnson's Great Society programs, have increasingly become generations of victims and dependency. Unfortunately, this mentality is self-sustaining and even multiplying. This same mentality breeds crime and disrespect for others and their property. Until this cycle is interupted and ultimately reverse, we will continue to see the gap between poor and wealthy widen. Until individuals learn the principles of personal responsibility and humility, more and more will refuse to attempt to help themselves, instead relying upon the resources of others to fill their troughs.

The opportunities are still there, probably moreso than ever. Yet taking advantage of them requires more initiative from those willing to succeed, because of the nature of the transition from a manufacturing economy to a service economy.
Ignoring the racists overtones to this post...

How do you explain away lack of social mobility to those born into the MIDDLE Class who aren't subject to government subsidies?
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:22 PM
 
3,570 posts, read 3,759,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Livinginabox View Post
I'm not advocating giving people free cars, free food, free houses...I'm talking about providing universal healthcare to all, based on need as opposed to ability to pay. Honestly, I think that 'for-profit' needs to be removed from the healthcare equation, or the problem is only going to get worse IMHO.
The crux of the problem is simple.

If someone says you have cancer, and you must get an operation to save your life, it doesn't matter whether you can or cannot afford it. You will seek out medical attention, and worry about the costs later.

ERGO, to treat health care as a consumer good is a fallacy. It is not a consumable, and it isn't an optional luxury good that one can chose or chose not to use when one is on a tight budget.
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:26 PM
 
3,570 posts, read 3,759,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noahma View Post
Here is a good idea of how bad this idea is...... Look at the DMV for christ sake. I go in and wait for 5 hours to get my drivers liscense renewed. I cant imagine how bad it would be with my health being involved with this. I dont need my health being prioritized by government workers
Medicare happens to work a lot more efficiently than our current private pay system.
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:34 PM
 
3,570 posts, read 3,759,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Black View Post
At least my insurance will do what ever it takes to get me the best treatment.

Obviously, you have never had a major illness. Every person I know who ever had that notion, who, by the way, had Cadillac Health Insurance Plans, were often surprised by the many loop holes.

My favorite was with the birth of my daughter.

I had a C-section (due to her being in the wrong position). C-sections require a 4 day stay in the hospital. The newborn stays in the hospital until the mom goes home. (Makes sense right, especially for breast fed babies.)

Except the insurance company will only pay for two days for the baby, unless the baby is sick.

Now how assinine is that?
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:37 PM
 
3,570 posts, read 3,759,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishmonger View Post
Not to mention how cold the mere title of that sounds in the first place... "Health Savings Account..." before long the RepoManUblicans'll be pressuring people to start their own "Police Protection Savings Accounts," "Kindergarden for your Kids Savings Accounts," "Pay the Firemen Savings Accounts..." The market will solve everything in the end! But we'll just have to get rid of the "chaffe" first. Of course then some of the non-chaffe will then have to become chaffe for it to keep working, but we can get rid of them too, until the earth's population is reduced to 2 people and nature is restored to its previous order.
Halliburtin is a shining example of the superiority of the market.

Didn't they provide contaminated water to our troops? (Among other things?)
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:51 PM
 
3,570 posts, read 3,759,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amichel View Post
I have not seen that on this thread.

I think people resent having MORE of their money taken and redistributed to lower wage earners. Enough is enough.
Why dump on those (people) without power?

Those same people don't resent having their money redistributed toward corporate welfare and legalized theft by the wealthy? Those who manipulate the political system (due to their financial influence) in their favor? Where's the outrage?
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:56 PM
 
3,570 posts, read 3,759,143 times
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Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Agreed.

Private charities / entities can help those in need better, quicker and cheaper. The less money I have to give to these groups, the less help they can give.
How'd that work out during Hoover's term?
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Old 10-21-2007, 11:52 PM
 
Location: DFW, TX
2,935 posts, read 6,716,950 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by roseba View Post
Obviously, you have never had a major illness. Every person I know who ever had that notion, who, by the way, had Cadillac Health Insurance Plans, were often surprised by the many loop holes.

My favorite was with the birth of my daughter.

I had a C-section (due to her being in the wrong position). C-sections require a 4 day stay in the hospital. The newborn stays in the hospital until the mom goes home. (Makes sense right, especially for breast fed babies.)

Except the insurance company will only pay for two days for the baby, unless the baby is sick.

Now how assinine is that?
Nice sweeping generalizations. I've had family members face grave illnesses and had only copays to worry about and didn't receive sub-par treatment or rushed out of the hospital. So using your logic, I'm safe to assume that there are never issues with private insurance.
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Old 10-21-2007, 11:56 PM
 
Location: DFW, TX
2,935 posts, read 6,716,950 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by roseba View Post
How'd that work out during Hoover's term?
How are things working now? If you honestly believe that the federal government raises funds for its programs and doesn't impact the poor, you're sadly mistaken. They're not going to raise taxes, that only makes it more difficult to get re-elected. No... they authorize more debt, which in turn authorizes the federal reserve to add more money into the system which weakens the dollar and pushes up inflation. This inflation is a hidden tax on the poor.
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