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Who's voice is on the tape doesn't prove anything, they could have both been screaming. Trayvon could have easily been yelling while he beat on Zimmerman. If Trayvon knocked him to the ground and was beating him it was an assault, and Zimmerman was justified in using force to defend himself. The eyewitness video I linked to earlier in this thread said it was the larger of the two men on top, beating the other. Trayvon was clearly the larger of the two.
That would make sense in altenate universe. Why would Trayvon feel he needed help if he had the upper hand? Surely if he was beating Zimmerman unconscious, as Zimmerman claims, Martin would have had the upper hand.
Who's voice is on the tape doesn't prove anything, they could have both been screaming. Trayvon could have easily been yelling while he beat on Zimmerman. If Trayvon knocked him to the ground and was beating him it was an assault, and Zimmerman was justified in using force to defend himself. The eyewitness video I linked to earlier in this thread said it was the larger of the two men on top, beating the other. Trayvon was clearly the larger of the two.
I might be wrong, but I remember seeing reports listing Trayvon at 6'0" and George at 5'9". Three inches wouldn't be enough of a difference to distinguish between larger and smaller, from a distance.
Who's voice is on the tape doesn't prove anything, they could have both been screaming.
If at least one of the voices was Zimmerman, you might have a point. But his voice isn't.
Quote:
Trayvon could have easily been yelling while he beat on Zimmerman. If Trayvon knocked him to the ground and was beating him it was an assault, and Zimmerman was justified in using force to defend himself.
Why do folks such as your self continue to ignore the issue of Martin's right to defend himself from an unidentified person who has stalked him in a car and then ran after him?
Quote:
The eyewitness video I linked to earlier in this thread said it was the larger of the two men on top, beating the other. Trayvon was clearly the larger of the two.
This is why most criminologist consider eyewitness testimony as being next to useless. How does one evaluate size when one is lying on the ground and the other is sitting on top especially when the size difference is nominal from any distance at night?
PS - who was or wasn't getting their hat handed to them is the least important issue in my mind. Just because you are getting your butt whoop doesn't justify the use of deadly force... even under Florida law.
I'd like to say that you make a good and valid point, but there are factual issues that exist that make this case questionable. A detective signed an affidavit stating that Zimmerman's story was unconvincing and should have been arrested. Why when this is pointed out, is it ignored? This detective obviously has the expertise to make an informed decision and opinion. Why should we assume that the Sanford PD conducted a proper investigation? The police chief was given a no confidence vote before he stepped down. To state that opinions cannot be formed based on just these two issues is presumptuous.
I've answered this question ad nauseum. Probable cause just wasn't there, based upon the facts they had, at the time. When you have "questionable" probable cause, you conduct your investigation and you forward it to the district attorney for THEIR review. They make the final say so; not the police.
I can arrest on probable cause. The district attorney has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt for a conviction. Just because I can arrest, does not mean the case will ever get charged. I arrest many people, I personally know the case won't get charged (don't get into this, you shall never understand).
I'm not saying the Sanford Police Department did do a proper investigation. I DON'T KNOW and NEITHER DO YOU. Maybe they did not and when the detective requested a criminal complaint be filed, the district attorney, reviewing what was in front of him said, "No way. Go back, reinvestigate, and answer the following questions: ......" Happens all the time.
However, before the questions get answered, this whole thing has blown up beyond recognition. Every internet commando investigator knows who is quilty, who isn't. What should be done, what shouldn't be done, etc.
And ask yourself this question: Say Zimmerman was arrested. The clock starts ticking. 48 hours until arraignment. Now, with the limited information they had, all of which would have been turned over to Zimmerman's defense attorneys, a judge would have kicked Zimmerman out of jail, saying there was no probable cause to hold him. Now what? You and everyone else would have been in even more of an uproar. Screaming, yelling racist judge, stamping your feet, holding your breath until you turn blue.
Oh and race fans? The fact he was released, after being arrested, would go in his favor in a jury trial down the road.
If at least one of the voices was Zimmerman, you might have a point. But his voice isn't.
Why do folks such as your self continue to ignore the issue of Martin's right to defend himself from an unidentified person who has stalked him in a car and then ran after him?
This is why most criminologist consider eyewitness testimony as being next to useless. How does one evaluate size when one is lying on the ground and the other is sitting on top especially when the size difference is nominal from any distance at night?
PS - who was or wasn't getting their hat handed to them is the least important issue in my mind. Just because you are getting your butt whoop doesn't justify the use of deadly force... even under Florida law.
Absolutely; especially when the shooter is the one who allowed the situation to escalate.
Thus, at this point, it makes little difference to me whether or not Trayvon was the one throwing blows, or if Zimmerman genuinely feared for his life. This shooting will always be GZ's fault, in my eyes. I'm sure he knows it, too. If you're the one who lights the fuse, you can't get mad at the dynamite.
If at least one of the voices was Zimmerman, you might have a point. But his voice isn't.
Why do folks such as your self continue to ignore the issue of Martin's right to defend himself from an unidentified person who has stalked him in a car and then ran after him?
This is why most criminologist consider eyewitness testimony as being next to useless. How does one evaluate size when one is lying on the ground and the other is sitting on top especially when the size difference is nominal from any distance at night?
PS - who was or wasn't getting their hat handed to them is the least important issue in my mind. Just because you are getting your butt whoop doesn't justify the use of deadly force... even under Florida law.
Martin's right to defend himself would matter only if he was still alive and gz dead. Otherwise, what matters is whether gz reasonably believed deadly force was necessary to prevent imminent great bodily harm.
A good butt-whoopin' might be enough use syg. From what I've been reading about FL. rulings, it doesn't take much to meet the standard.
Thank you for answering. So knowing this don't you think something is wrong here? Why was he not arrested? Its not because they got together and said "lets get more evidence". I just don't believe that. Second you must be in city up north or out west right?
Having said that I wish there were more blacks in law enforcement because as you said you stood up many would and that would have an immediate effect on racism in law enforcement.
The other thing is I would not cross the street if you were coming. I'm black and I watch out for all types. Thug dress does make me pay more attention. Doesn't mean I can approach and then kill someone.
Do I think something is wrong here? I DON'T KNOW. I don't have all the facts to make an informed decision. Now, if you are just going off of a kid walking through the neighborhood, this guy jumps out, a fight ensues, and he shoots and kills him. Yes, something is wrong. However, other issues have cropped up which put a "kink" into that scenario. It takes TIME to work these issues out. This is not CSI on TV, where you can finish a murder investigation in 45 minutes.
I know you can do it on TV, you know, pick up a phone, get a search warrant in 2 minutes. However, in real life, it takes HOURS, sometimes DAYS.
It takes weeks, sometimes MONTHS to write and complete the investigation. I've written investigations which have taken me 6 months to complete. ONE investigation.
Yes, I work in the San Francisco Bay Area. However, yes, I do know the problems of racism in the south and how things are done "differently." I was stationed at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina for many years. I was subjected to racism there and, as I have said, subjected to racism here (the supposed tolerant SF Bay Area; don't be a black man, married to blonde haired, blue eyed woman).
At the sometime, no one has proved racism here. In fact, with the exception of the Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton screaming, the facts prove otherwise. Many people, even black people, have said Zimmerman isn't a racist. Everyone is merely guessing.
The bottom line to all this uproar? Zimmerman will NEVER get a fair trial. No matter what the facts are, he will be prosecuted. The community uproar would not allow for otherwise. And if he is found not guilty, there will be rioting in the streets. Good for me. I'll make large amounts of money in overtime.
Who's voice is on the tape doesn't prove anything, they could have both been screaming. Trayvon could have easily been yelling while he beat on Zimmerman. If Trayvon knocked him to the ground and was beating him it was an assault, and Zimmerman was justified in using force to defend himself. The eyewitness video I linked to earlier in this thread said it was the larger of the two men on top, beating the other. Trayvon was clearly the larger of the two.
1. Why was Trayvon asking for help? Did he want someone to help beat Zimmerman?"
2. "The larger man" could be taken to mean the heavier one.
You probably think the "No_Limit_N****" reference was something I made up didn't you? LOL Well....guess what? That's Trayvons twitter account moniker. Fine upstanding young man he was!
It's funny how you admit to being on a Hate Group website.......meanwhile I have NEVER been on a hate group site. In fact, i'd have to Google it to see where they exist and who to go check out.
Talk about backfiring.......You should feel like an idiot right now.
Last edited by AeroGuyDC; 04-02-2012 at 04:45 PM..
Reason: spelling
1. Why was Trayvon asking for help? Did he want someone to help beat Zimmerman?"
2. "The larger man" could be taken to mean the heavier one.
It's chilling, because if Trayvon was yelling for help, logic tells us that he most likely felt threathened by the sight of the gun...no? If the gun was in Zimmerman's hand and Trayvon is yelling for help, in that split second, if no other time, Zimmerman had the upper hand and could have diffused the situation and not pulled the trigger....IMO.
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