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EVERYONE that came here was an immigrant. The old world immigrants made up a huge percentage Of the immigrants here during that time and they were ONLY controlled was because of quota laws which prevented more from coming.
Again arethe Italians in little Italy, or the asians in Chinatown, or the polish in Chicago assimilating well??
You want to talk about really assimilating. The "first true Americans " were white, Protestant farmers; customs change. A big part of assimilating is being able to communicate and accept ones differences not turning them into "mini-me's" if you will.
And carribean hispanics- many were African not Spanish. (Cuba, Dominican republic to name just 2)
Also I'm not just speaking for Hispanics. All of my points go for all cultures; but the point of this thread is Hispanics......
Those are mostly ethnic business neighborhoods that you mentioned. As I said, that is a whole lot different than residential neighborhoods and entire cities filled with non-asssimilating immigrants from mostly one ethnic group all over the country and many of them illegal aliens.
Those are mostly ethnic business neighborhoods that you mentioned. As I said, that is a whole lot different than residential neighborhoods and entire cities filled with non-asssimilating immigrants from mostly one ethnic group all over the country and many of them illegal aliens.
And this is what is also happening in Europe.
You have segregated neighborhoods of new immigrants that are keeping their language and customs and mostly associating and doing business among their own people.
Now we have it happening here. But we haven't changed all of our government services to adapt..education being one of them.
You only have bilingual education K-5, after that it's English only.
Those are mostly ethnic business neighborhoods(with the exception of maybe little italy the ones i listed are residential areas first, ethnic business areas second )that you mentioned. As I said, that is a whole lot different than residential neighborhoods and entire cities filled with non-asssimilating immigrants from mostly one ethnic group all over the country and many of them illegal aliens.
Harlem boundaries
Zip Code 10026: Morningside Heights/West Harlem/Central Harlem | Manhattan Chamber of Commerce. We Mean Business. New York, NY (http://www.manhattancc.org/common/news/reports/detail.cfm?Classification=report&QID=7244&ClientID =11001&TopicID=283 - broken link)
You keep saying that you do not have a problem with "ethnic business" areas, however, it seem to me that what you are failing to see is that these areas exist only within pockets of different cultured people. The ethnic businesses exist because of the people who live there not just because a Hispanic, an Italian or an Asian said "I want to build here" and everyone followed.
These are LARGE residential areas filled with thousands of people predominantly with one shared culture. This does not mean they aren't assimilating.... isn't the American way finding "The American dream" which consist of ones right to the pursuit of happiness... To many of these immigrants they have achieved their dream by making it into the US and creating their own profitable businesses, by making it to the US and knowing that their child can have free schooling until the age of 16. Not assimilating does not mean taking what you have in this country for granted, it means accepting the opportunities that this country offers and using them wisely. Just because one doesn't assimilate doesn't mean that one should be kicked out of the country, it doesn't mean that they disrespect the culture, and it doesn't mean that "they should go back to where they come from"
My personal story- My entire family has come from the Dominican Republic and they all can understand English, however because they ALL came after they were grown learning to speak the language has proved very difficult.... They all passed their citizenship test- which at the time my father took it consisted of, reciting the pledge in English, knowing how to say the date in English, Knowing the current president, how many people lived in your household and a number of other things which were expected to be said in English- no interpreters there... Based off of what many people are saying- one could easily assume that my dad is an immigrant because his English is so broken but if his English and his "assimilation" was enough for him to become a citizen of America why is the rest so important?
I am second generation Dominican and 3rd generation Puerto-rican. Although I was born here and have gone to school my entire live in America my roots are still very much in a Hispanic culture, because prior to moving I was surround by people who took pride in what their country has done for them- and the things that their country or culture has taught them in order to have succeed in this country. As a whole I feel that it is good how open *most* of America is to the brewing of different cultures in today's society.
Harlem boundaries
Zip Code 10026: Morningside Heights/West Harlem/Central Harlem | Manhattan Chamber of Commerce. We Mean Business. New York, NY (http://www.manhattancc.org/common/news/reports/detail.cfm?Classification=report&QID=7244&ClientID =11001&TopicID=283 - broken link)
You keep saying that you do not have a problem with "ethnic business" areas, however, it seem to me that what you are failing to see is that these areas exist only within pockets of different cultured people. The ethnic businesses exist because of the people who live there not just because a Hispanic, an Italian or an Asian said "I want to build here" and everyone followed.
These are LARGE residential areas filled with thousands of people predominantly with one shared culture. This does not mean they aren't assimilating.... isn't the American way finding "The American dream" which consist of ones right to the pursuit of happiness... To many of these immigrants they have achieved their dream by making it into the US and creating their own profitable businesses, by making it to the US and knowing that their child can have free schooling until the age of 16. Not assimilating does not mean taking what you have in this country for granted, it means accepting the opportunities that this country offers and using them wisely. Just because one doesn't assimilate doesn't mean that one should be kicked out of the country, it doesn't mean that they disrespect the culture, and it doesn't mean that "they should go back to where they come from"
My personal story- My entire family has come from the Dominican Republic and they all can understand English, however because they ALL came after they were grown learning to speak the language has proved very difficult.... They all passed their citizenship test- which at the time my father took it consisted of, reciting the pledge in English, knowing how to say the date in English, Knowing the current president, how many people lived in your household and a number of other things which were expected to be said in English- no interpreters there... Based off of what many people are saying- one could easily assume that my dad is an immigrant because his English is so broken but if his English and his "assimilation" was enough for him to become a citizen of America why is the rest so important?
I am second generation Dominican and 3rd generation Puerto-rican. Although I was born here and have gone to school my entire live in America my roots are still very much in a Hispanic culture, because prior to moving I was surround by people who took pride in what their country has done for them- and the things that their country or culture has taught them in order to have succeed in this country. As a whole I feel that it is good how open *most* of America is to the brewing of different cultures in today's society.
I understand everything that you are saying you're the one who isn't understanding.... YOU said (paraphrased) " These areas you mentioned are ethnic business areas" Did you not? I was stating that IN ORDER for these areas to exist several areas of LARGE ETHNIC GROUPSTHAT ARE STILL HOLDING ON TO THEIR CULTURE need to exist. key word there is HOLDING on... again my whole point was that I feel that 100% assimilation is not necessary; you on the other hand do, and like I said I understand that, I understand it 100% and I respect where you're coming from and why you feel it is an issue and your nationality and everything else- I really do. However, the reason we keep going back and forth is because in my eyes it seems like you are refusing an attempt to see anything from a different perspective which is the point of forums, isn't it?
I mentioned my story, because coming from a long line of immigrants I understand WHY assimilating may be difficult and WHY Hispanic families as well as every other non American ethnic group feel the need to not assimilate fully and maintain their cultures- even outside of their homes.
I understand everything that you are saying you're the one who isn't understanding.... YOU said (paraphrased) " These areas you mentioned are ethnic business areas" Did you not? I was stating that IN ORDER for these areas to exist several areas of LARGE ETHNIC GROUPSTHAT ARE STILL HOLDING ON TO THEIR CULTURE need to exist. key word there is HOLDING on... again my whole point was that I feel that 100% assimilation is not necessary; you on the other hand do, and like I said I understand that, I understand it 100% and I respect where you're coming from and why you feel it is an issue and your nationality and everything else- I really do. However, the reason we keep going back and forth is because in my eyes it seems like you are refusing an attempt to see anything from a different perspective which is the point of forums, isn't it?
I mentioned my story, because coming from a long line of immigrants I understand WHY assimilating may be difficult and WHY Hispanic families as well as every other non American ethnic group feel the need to not assimilate fully and maintain their cultures- even outside of their homes.
Therefore I give up trying to
It's all in the attitude. Many immigrants come here either already prepared or willing to adapt and learn.
When people move here only for the easy money and welfare handouts, of course it's easy to plan to hold on to their culture and resist adapting.
Other immigrants aren't as coddled, you don't see 100 choices for the dialects of India for example for telephone calls. You don't get a choice for Polish, French, Italian. Yet we have immigrants from many nations, many language backgrounds.
It's a total untruth that no immigrants can know or learn English and that it takes all groups 3 or 4 generations to begin to learn the language of this country, in reality many immigrants speak English -- first generation.
@malamute I agree w/ you a 100% there is a difference between refusal, negotiation (take a little give a little i.e with business for ex.) (lack of a better word here), and willing to turn around and drop their culture for a 100% American lifestyle.
Obviously if it takes 3/4 generation then refusal is the reason.
I am second generation Dominican and 3rd generation Puerto-rican. Although I was born here and have gone to school my entire live in America my roots are still very much in a Hispanic culture, because prior to moving I was surround by people who took pride in what their country has done for them- and the things that their country or culture has taught them in order to have succeed in this country. As a whole I feel that it is good how open *most* of America is to the brewing of different cultures in today's society.
This statement is illogical, borderline irrational. What are some of the things that are so great about the Dominican Republic or Puerto Rico? What are some of the cultural things about these places that are so good that obviously should be kept for generations? I came to this country at the age 11 and I am very proud of being an American.
I know Puerto Ricans who are third generation Americans and they still call "Puerto Rico" home, what the ****? "Yes, because back home we do things this way", hmm, I wonder why they don't just go back "home" for good since things over there seem to be so much better than here in the USA
How about just basic knowledge of what the countries started out as??? How about cultural things like food, music and something that I see MUCH more in those countries than here- the family and togetherness...
In the dominican republic for example none of my relatives were able to go past the 8th grade because high school isnt free; they learn to appreciate american education systems, my dad was working full time at the age of 14 because he didn't have school to go to because he ha no money, he came to the states and carried that work ethic with him and took several courses here which have led him down a successful path.
. Nowhere in my post did I say I didn't consider myself to be American. I do. I just also recognize that my bloodstream is not just that of European decent and yes although it may end there so many generations before me have lost that culture.
I also did not say that I go around saying " in my country" for everything. All assumptions. I was just putting my viewpoint out there.
I'm done,
Last edited by Jazzii; 04-29-2012 at 10:25 AM..
Reason: Spelling
This statement is illogical, borderline irrational. What are some of the things that are so great about the Dominican Republic or Puerto Rico? What are some of the cultural things about these places that are so good that obviously should be kept for generations? I came to this country at the age 11 and I am very proud of being an American.
I know Puerto Ricans who are third generation Americans and they still call "Puerto Rico" home, what the ****? "Yes, because back home we do things this way", hmm, I wonder why they don't just go back "home" for good since things over there seem to be so much better than here in the USA
Probably, because EVERY Puerto Rican is a US citizen at birth. Their island is their homeland, just like OHIO is mine. When I'm in another state talking with locals I speak proudly of my "homeland" Ohio. In your reality anyone that moves to a new region is "required" to disown their past and their homeland, OR HOME STATE????
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