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Guns make it easier. Shooting is impersonal unlike stabbing.
The fact that "people can go loony" doesnt mean society should support everyone having a gun. In fact, it supports quite the opposite.
Many graduate studies in psychology manifest why shooting = depersonalization of the victim.
serial killer Ted Bundy liked stabbing, he had closer contact with the victime. When you shoot someone, its easier to disassociate from the results.
I dont want to go off topic with actual statistics.
Hmmm... Its late and I really can't read all these posts like I usually do... however... I wonder if this has been said: a close relative of mine (black) has much more comfort with firearms than I do. He lives in the South. It is his opinion, true or not, that registering a firearm with the relevant authorities would be similar to putting a target on your back. He has acquaintances whose harassment by law enforcement tripled when they filed for their carry permits. Just saying. I wonder if anyone has done the research on the outcomes of incidents of police responding to the residence of a known CCP holders broken down by race.
I think this part of the original post is true: "defensive use of firearms happens three or four times a year". Not an exact quote but close enough for Government work. In that year there were no doubt a dozen or more suicides by guns as well as other kinds of armed robberies, etc. Maybe even murders if it is an East Coast location. I think it is fair to say that a gun isn't the very best defensive weapon a person could own. Again, I haven't any empirical data, but I do believe it is entirely possible that there have been more armed people murdered by guns than unarmed people. Ponder that for a minute and tell me again why there is such a frenzy over the ownership of such unwieldy devices of personal protection.
FEAR is not something I give in to easily, but apparently you do.
I do not want to live in a gated community with wacked out "security watchmen" who have a criminal record or domestic violence issues.
Quite sexist of you to play the fear card, but I am not surprised.
And think twice before you respond. Unless you understand DV, try to have some tact and intelligence.
I simply asked you to clairify your position so I could understand it. You stated:
Quote:
I am an assault victim
So I do not want to live in a residential area were everyone has a CCW.
Why would you not want to live in a residential area where everyone has a CCW? Would you not want your neighbors to be able to protect themselves from a violent crime? Would you not want them to be able to protect others from criminals that prey on the defenseless? I'm simply trying to understand the reasoning behind your statement.
You don't want to live where everyone has a CCW? A CCW permit typically requires training, practical demonstration of a degree of proficiencey of weapons handling, fingerprinting and a criminal background check, that ensures that only law abiding people are allowed to carry concealled. Why wouldn't you want these people as neighbors? Converesly, would you prefer to live in a place where the only ones with concealled firearms are criminals?
I'm not attacking you, I simply want to understand the reasoning behind your position.
Last edited by Toyman at Jewel Lake; 05-31-2012 at 12:41 AM..
[quote=Ruth4Truth;24533020]Re-read her post, she explained it.
What about the last shooting at Virginia Tech, where a guy shot a cop? And Virginia thinks the solution to the problem is to allow everyone on campus to carry guns? What?!
In that shooting, was the shooter legally allowed to carry a weapon where he did? Was he legally allowed to shoot a cop? If not...can you explain just how passing a law that made these actions illegal protected the innocent? Whereas just one legally armed person might have stopped the attack in it's tracks. Much like first V-Tech shooting, the public should have been "protected" by laws that made it illegal for the bad guys to have guns on campus. Here's a hint, those willing to violate the law with regard to murder...are unlikely to pay attention to a law that says you can't have a weapon in a specific place. All this gun-free zone did was ensure that the bad guy had a safe work environment. OSHA for criminals.
What if someone's carrying a concealed weapon while they're at a bar, and they get in an argument? In most states, it is illegal to carry in a bar with a concealled weapon, even with a permit. AFAIK, it is illegal to be intoxicated with one in all states.
What if more people like Zimmerman with a history of violence get guns and decide to play vigilante? We don't know the details of what happened in the Zimmerman case, so I'll wait for the trial to comment further on it. Looking at a different scenario though, lets say a neighborhood watch volunteer is doing his job, observing and reporting. He/she observes criminals burglarizing a house...and the criminals notice and takes offense. The criminals approach the witness...to ensure that there won't BE a witness. Being unarmed puts the NW volunteer at an unnecessary risk. It's like driving without a seat belt. You might not need it today and certainly don't plan to use it. But when you do need it, far better to be prepared.
People with a history of mental illness can easily get guns, even though the law prohibits them from doing so. What if everyone who posted here to get your guns to fight Obama's race war actually organized and whipped each other into a frenzy and went out and did something stupid? Based on the level of intelligence shown in posts on this forum, this is not an unreasonable scenario to expect. By "did something stupid" are you referring to mobs of racist whites attacking blacks? In such a case, wouldn't it make more sense for blacks to be armed, or at least have the right to be? Would you prefer that potential victims of idiots like the KKK be unarmed?
Now they're marketing guns to women. What if women with abusive partners decide to shoot their partners and claim self defense, rather than take the time and trouble to get restraining orders, and move out? Why should a woman with an abusive partner not have a means of defending herself? Just what good does a restraining order do? If her abuser comes after her, what's she supposed to do, hold it up in front of him to stop the attack? What if she does leave and he follows? I would much prefer to see her armed, than beaten or dead.
How would you guarantee that the kids of all those gun owners wouldn't get hold of the guns and accidentally shoot their friends, as has happened more than once in the past?Familiarity and proficiency with firearms. Children raised around firearms don't have this "forbidden fruit" attraction to them, and know the 4 rules. It's usually the hopolophobes that are most dangerous around firearms. Should we ban cars because kids might get hold of the parents keys and take them for a joy ride?
What if a serial rapist decides a gun would be a handy thing to have to get what he wants? If one is willing to commit the crime of rape, why would they not violate firearms laws to posess a gun? The definition of a criminal is someone who breaks the law...why would you think they would respect gun laws but not others? The better issue is why should a woman not have a firearm and CCW permit in order to protect herself from said serial rapist? Why does the state in many cases deny her a means of self defense?
No safety issues here, oh no, no safety issues at all. I guess we agree after all![/quote]
You know, not that many people go looney anyway if you compare the numbers to the general population. Carrying a gun and not having any duty to retreat will not prevent mentally ill from going crazy.
You are right, not that many people "go loony". But carrying a firearm may just provide you with a means of protecting your self or others in the unlikely event that you're around someone that does so.
It is too bad that you are offended. I didn't say that all whites see all blacks as criminals, but even you should admit that people do perceive black men especially to be more criminally minded than men of other ethnicities. You should really pay attention to all the "black" threads on here going on and on about black single moms being the reason why our country's morals are in the crapper and about how we get money because we are black and about how we don't value education and about how our "culture" is violent. I have many things to take offense too on these boards and never once have I taken any offense to them. People can have their opinions. I know what I think and what I do and what my culture is. You know you don't stereotyped, don't take offense.
Some responses are in bold.
Thanks again for the thoughful post. It's eye opening, and disappointing, to see how common it seems to be for an innocent black, especially a black male, to be arrested or confronted by police. Reading statistics about this is different than a "converstaion" where the victim of such persecution can tell his/her story.
I abhor the crime and violence that is common in far too many inner city areas, and the culture that celebrates that. And yes, I think single mothers, particularly those on public assistance, have a very difficult job to do when it comes to raising children that will grow to be responsible adults, and often fail to do so. But a small portion of all races fit in that culture and situation. I certainly don't believe that this is representative of all, or even a major percentage of blacks.
Hmmm... Its late and I really can't read all these posts like I usually do... however... I wonder if this has been said: a close relative of mine (black) has much more comfort with firearms than I do. He lives in the South. It is his opinion, true or not, that registering a firearm with the relevant authorities would be similar to putting a target on your back. He has acquaintances whose harassment by law enforcement tripled when they filed for their carry permits. Just saying. I wonder if anyone has done the research on the outcomes of incidents of police responding to the residence of a known CCP holders broken down by race.
I think this part of the original post is true: "defensive use of firearms happens three or four times a year". Not an exact quote but close enough for Government work. In that year there were no doubt a dozen or more suicides by guns as well as other kinds of armed robberies, etc. Maybe even murders if it is an East Coast location. I think it is fair to say that a gun isn't the very best defensive weapon a person could own. Again, I haven't any empirical data, but I do believe it is entirely possible that there have been more armed people murdered by guns than unarmed people. Ponder that for a minute and tell me again why there is such a frenzy over the ownership of such unwieldy devices of personal protection.
H
That sounds about right for my relatively small area; 3 or 4 cases of defensive firearms use a year that make the news. I'm sure there are a good many others that don't, or that I don't happen to hear about. Nationally, there have been a few studies about such things. The results range from ~600,000 to 2.5 million cases per year of defensive firearms use. In most cases they are not fired. I am unaware of any suicides by firearms in this area, though it's not unlikely.
Just curious, you say a gun isn't the best defensive weapon a person could own. What do you propose that is more effective?
With regard to law enforcement harrassement when you have a CCW....I have never encountered it. I had one incident with police when carrying. I was pulled over when lights on my trailer weren't working. The cop asked me to get out of the rig and check them. I told him I had a CCW and was packing, how do you want to proceed. He just said I don't care about that, just check your lights. YMMV, depending on where you live. I've had more issues when I let mine expire. Every time I get stopped (I have a lead foot), I'm asked if I know my CCW has expired and if I'm carrying.
Last edited by Toyman at Jewel Lake; 05-31-2012 at 01:17 AM..
Reagan was shot by a guy with a gun. I don't know if he had it legally or not, but if not, that points to another problem. With the proliferation of gun ownership, it would be that much easier for people to steal guns, use their parents' gun or "borrow" a friend's gun to make mayhem.
And yet...violent crime is down, and has been decreasing while firearms ownership rates are increasing. And as more states pass concealled carry laws. Is that because of the increase in lawful gun ownership? I don't believe there is solid evidence to support that. BUt there is certainly no evidence that lets one conclude that lawful fun ownership increases violent crime and "mayhem".
Guns make it easier. Shooting is impersonal unlike stabbing.
The fact that "people can go loony" doesnt mean society should support everyone having a gun. In fact, it supports quite the opposite.
Many graduate studies in psychology manifest why shooting = depersonalization of the victim.
serial killer Ted Bundy liked stabbing, he had closer contact with the victime. When you shoot someone, its easier to disassociate from the results.
I dont want to go off topic with actual statistics.
A criminal is not going to go through the trouble of obtaining a gun legally. So laws won't work in this case.
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