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You still arent getting it. Even if I cant grow or do anything myself, even if Im the dumbest person on the planet, I can still simply pay someone in produce or land to do it for me. They will have to accept my lowest offer, because their only alternative is to starve and die..
And what is your alternative? If you don't know how to utilize your resources, i.e. produce food, you both in the same exact position...
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
2. If you are talking about the sand becoming more valuable in dollars or some other medium of exchange, because now it has more use, thats irrelevant. Wealth should never be measured in mediums of exchange, because mediums of exchange are either consumables, or worthless. A person could have 1 billion USD, and in an apocolypse, how useful do you think that would be to him, outside of being able to use it to light a few fires?.
How useful would your land be if by the same catastrophic event it becomes submerged or covered by volcanic ashes? How useful it is if you die?
Nothing has an inherent value.
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
So, its impossible to have a thought that wasnt taught in school? Maybe thats true in your case, but protracting will get you in to trouble, especially in grown up discussions.
"Grown up discussions?" Grownups usually understand that to have an intelligent discussion and before you come up with your own ideas you have to have some basic knowledge or foundation on the subject.
What you are typing here is absolute nonsense that does not have anything to do with grownup discussions
What pillar of communism advocates forcing people to do something again?
In Soviet Union everybody had to work. You could not just stay at home and do nothing. I think this is still the case in Cuba and North Korea. You didn't know that?
Good for you, making them help with the building, even of that isn't their carrer path, teaches them where things come from. I put "college kids" to work all the time in my home building projects. It is fun to watch the awakings.
I could easily pay off my daughter's $60k student loans but I'd rather have her going to school and "struggle" a bit to understand how things work. Once she's done with her Phd band starting her paying job ill clear her debt.
Wow, a PHD. You must be proud. My kids have some talent in building and marginal academic talent (except my daughter who graduated with over a 3.0 GPA). My son will be lucky to graduate from a State College.
Think about it, when has a road or bridge ever been built for pleasure driving. They are all built for corporate interests. In the 1800's during the canal boom, those canals were built for commercial interests. To move product, if they moved ppl it was because they were paying customers, freight with money. When the laid the rails, same thing, moving products and paying customers.
The interstate system was built for the same reason, to move products between those population center, TRADE.
LOL, you seriously think those sheep sitting in that traffic jam every morning are doing so for personal reasons? Rush hour is nothing but a product of business interests overuse of the roadway. Their workers, their traffic jam. The "BUSINESS" relationship between the worker and the boss, that paycheck, doesn't make commuting a personal joy ride. Each worker is taking part in a commercial transaction and uses that road to execute that Exchange.
Face it roads are built for commerce but the general public foot most of the bill. The uber wealthy business interests hide behind nonsense like yours to evade paying their fair share of the true costs for our infrastructure.
I sure hope you don't own a car. And if you do, I sure hope you've never driven to the beach, the amusement park, to see your kids, grandma, or the Grand Canyon.
And what is your alternative? If you don't know how to utilize your resources, i.e. produce food, you both in the same exact position...
I could eat grass or berries, even bark if I had to. Humans were around thousands and thousands of years before they domesticated crops.
You on the other hand, would die.
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Originally Posted by rebel12
How useful would your land be if by the same catastrophic event it becomes submerged or covered by volcanic ashes? How useful it is if you die?
Nothing has an inherent value.
If my land sinks and becomes useless, so what? How is that relevant? That doesnt increase the wealth of anyone else, nor does it increase the wealth of the planet, or conflict with my assertion that the earth currently has all the wealth it will ever have. In fact, it doesnt decrease my wealth even, it just lowers the utility (thats even pending, since I could still have extractable resources, even under the water), and potentially its usefulness in exchange. Its the same concept with the stock market. Even if my stock went down to nothing per the "market", I didnt "lose" anything until I actually relinquished my shares.
If you actually want to debate this, stop introducing straw men.
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"Grown up discussions?" Grownups usually understand that to have an intelligent discussion and before you come up with your own ideas you have to have some basic knowledge or foundation on the subject.
What you are typing here is absolute nonsense that does not have anything to do with grownup discussions
Because you cant grasp the concept does not mean it is nonsense. Thats more a reflection of your intellegence than the validity of my statements.
In Soviet Union everybody had to work. You could not just stay at home and do nothing. I think this is still the case in Cuba and North Korea. You didn't know that?
None of these are, or were ever communist...next question.
If I call a bird a car, it does not mean a bird is a car. A bird is still a bird, and a car is still a car, and the person who believed that a bird is a car is a moron.
I could eat grass or berries, even bark if I had to. Humans were around thousands and thousands of years before they domesticated crops..
Who said anything about berries? How do you know your land is not a desert?
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
If my land sinks and becomes useless, so what? How is that relevant? That doesnt increase the wealth of anyone else, nor does it increase the wealth of the planet, or conflict with my assertion that the earth currently has all the wealth it will ever have. .
And what exactly is "the wealth of the planet"?
If your land sinks that simply points to absurdity of your assessment that "earth currently has all the wealth it will ever have" as usefulness and associated value of resources changes all the time. Some of the value is being created. Some disappears for ever. There are renewable and not renewable resources on this planet.
Most importantly, before you come up with your own ideas do some studying. It may open your eyes
Who said anything about berries? Maybe your land is a desert?
Even if my land is stripped bare of anything useful, at very minimum, youd need to pay me rent to live on it, and youd and I would both need to pay someone else for food. What likely would happen is that I would charge you food to stay on my land, and you would be faced with having to continuously secure enough food to feed yourself and pay rent to stay on my land.
I never said all land is equivalently useful, just that wealth is not created.
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Originally Posted by rebel12
It simply points to absurdity of your assessment that "earth currently has all the wealth it will ever have" as usefulness and associate value of resources changes all the time.
Explain this. What are you valuing it in terms of? See, your complete and total argument is predicated on valuing something in terms of a common medium of exchange. How many "dollars is it worth"?
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Originally Posted by rebel12
Some of the value is being created. Some disappears for ever.
Increased commom medium exchange "value" and increased wealth, are not equivalent. You have the inability to disconnect them in your brain, which is central to why you, and people like you, cant grasp the argument. Value is measured by how much something exchanges for, and can only be compared to other things by a common exchange medium. Those who cant wrap their heads around this concept believe that the common exchange medium is actually wealth.
People like you think, that, because you sold your microchip for $100, and, the base ingredients costs you $50, that you "created wealth". No, you didnt. You aquired an extra $50 piece of paper, that someone cut from a tree, that someone grew on their land. It only has value because its generally accepted as a medium of exchange, but has no impact on the neccessity of man.
Your microchips ACTUAL value is only that which you can exchange it for, because it has no ability in itself to impact on the neccessity of man.
Anyone who depends on someone else to produce their raw neccessities in whole, and source their exchange, is not wealthy. They are a middle man simply swapping around mediums of exchange for survival.
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There are renewable and not renewable resources on this planet
Renewable resources are not wealth, they are a medium of exchange.
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Most importantly, before you come up with your own ideas do some studying. It may open your eyes
Study what? Reality? Already have. What I am stating is indisputable fact. Period. Again, whether you can grasp it or not is irrelevant.
I sure hope you don't own a car. And if you do, I sure hope you've never driven to the beach, the amusement park, to see your kids, grandma, or the Grand Canyon.
How much do you think the public uses the roads for strictly personal things like that. Assuming someone on their two vacation uses the roads as much as the do in a work week, that's 4% of the time. Seeing we're paying most of the cost of the roads, what we're buying isn't the limited personal use we enjoy.
Wow, a PHD. You must be proud. My kids have some talent in building and marginal academic talent (except my daughter who graduated with over a 3.0 GPA). My son will be lucky to graduate from a State College.
But they swing a mean hammer
Yep, but it has been a costly affair, one BS and two Masters. I'm just hoping there isn't another after this, lol.
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If you don't know how to utilize your resources, i.e. produce food, you both in the same exact position... 
