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That POS Holder asks Obama to exert Executive privilege on docs requested by congress!!! He know his ass is grass!!!
The House Pubs will do their damnedest to make this into something big, but they'll fail.
This whole gun-running scheme was begun back in 2006 under Dubya's AG, Michael Mukasey. The GOP House had absolutely no problem with it back then. And now that they're all huffy and indignant, they've called exactly 0 members of the Bush Justice Dept to testify. It's partisan play, all the way.
So, it's nothing more then political theater, folks. And it'll go nowhere. Issa has no solid legal ground for his action. And to be honest, I'm a little surprised that it took him the better part of two years to get to this point. When the Pubs took the Hosue back in 20101, it was almost common knowledge that Issa would be launching investigations and doing his best to try to tie up the president in legal proceedings. And this is the best he's got. It's a weak hand, but it's all he has to play.
He'd better be careful, though. Holder will prevail, in all likelihood. And the public will be left with another impression of a GOP congress that ran and was elected on the issue of jobs doing anything but working on that problem. Matter of fact, the GOP House just recently defeated a transportation bill that would have created lots of jobs.
I wonder if the Dems will be able to use that in the campaign.
The House Pubs will do their damnedest to make this into something big, but they'll fail.
This whole gun-running scheme was begun back in 2006 under Dubya's AG, Michael Mukasey. The GOP House had absolutely no problem with it back then. And now that they're all huffy and indignant, they've called exactly 0 members of the Bush Justice Dept to testify. It's partisan play, all the way.
So, it's nothing more then political theater, folks. And it'll go nowhere. Issa has no solid legal ground for his action. And to be honest, I'm a little surprised that it took him the better part of two years to get to this point. When the Pubs took the Hosue back in 20101, it was almost common knowledge that Issa would be launching investigations and doing his best to try to tie up the president in legal proceedings. And this is the best he's got. It's a weak hand, but it's all he has to play.
He'd better be careful, though. Holder will prevail, in all likelihood. And the public will be left with another impression of a GOP congress that ran and was elected on the issue of jobs doing anything but working on that problem. Matter of fact, the GOP House just recently defeated a transportation bill that would have created lots of jobs.
I wonder if the Dems will be able to use that in the campaign.
I don't think you are aware that there were 2 gunrunner programs. This is not the one under Bush.
The one under Bush was in cooperation with the Mexican government and they arrested the gun runners at the border. Under Bush they lost 12 guns. Each gun had a tracer on them as well.
That program was changed in 2009. The Mexican government was dropped as were the tracers.
No one arrested the gunrunners and they were allowed to go into Mexico. The guns came back via crimes. And they still haven't found all the guns they let get sold.
Bush's program "Operation Wide Receiver" was shut down in October 2007.
Obama's program "Fast and Furious" began in November 2009.
The House Pubs will do their damnedest to make this into something big, but they'll fail.
This whole gun-running scheme was begun back in 2006 under Dubya's AG, Michael Mukasey. The GOP House had absolutely no problem with it back then. And now that they're all huffy and indignant, they've called exactly 0 members of the Bush Justice Dept to testify. It's partisan play, all the way.
So, it's nothing more then political theater, folks. And it'll go nowhere. Issa has no solid legal ground for his action. And to be honest, I'm a little surprised that it took him the better part of two years to get to this point. When the Pubs took the Hosue back in 20101, it was almost common knowledge that Issa would be launching investigations and doing his best to try to tie up the president in legal proceedings. And this is the best he's got. It's a weak hand, but it's all he has to play.
He'd better be careful, though. Holder will prevail, in all likelihood. And the public will be left with another impression of a GOP congress that ran and was elected on the issue of jobs doing anything but working on that problem. Matter of fact, the GOP House just recently defeated a transportation bill that would have created lots of jobs.
I wonder if the Dems will be able to use that in the campaign.
Too bad you couldn't be bothered by reading the thread. Holder has already stated to Congress that this had nothing to do with the program running under the Bush administration. That program was being administered with the help of the Mexican government. Holder's was not.
Do you think Holder lied to Congress when he made that statement? Will he be charged with perjury? Do you think we should know how this got so out of hand that people were killed with these guns?
Maybe not. Then you would have to deal with the issues of this administration and what YOUR media covers up for you. Sad!
Too bad you couldn't be bothered by reading the thread. Holder has already stated to Congress that this had nothing to do with the program running under the Bush administration. That program was being administered with the help of the Mexican government. Holder's was not.
Do you think Holder lied to Congress when he made that statement? Will he be charged with perjury? Do you think we should know how this got so out of hand that people were killed with these guns?
Maybe not. Then you would have to deal with the issues of this administration and what YOUR media covers up for you. Sad!
I think we should come back and discuss this whole thing in a few months after it's all blown over. But I have a strong suspicion you won't be in the mood.
The fact is that the gun-running began under Bush and the GOP House had no problem with it. Holder has shut down "fast and furious" and what Issa is trying to build into a big case is access to confidential email between the White House and the Justic Dept.
I don't think you're aware that those are administration agencies and not beholden to the legislative branch, which is what the House is. Issa is playing an obvious political card by trying to tie up Obama in legal action at the beginning of a campaign season.
Obama was never in the picture until yesterday when EP was granted. It was 100% about the DOJ and Holder.
Both Holder and Obama said the WH knew nothing about fast & furious.
The fact is that the gun-running began under Bush and the GOP House had no problem with it. Holder has shut down "fast and furious" and what Issa is trying to build into a big case is access to confidential email between the White House and the Justic Dept.
Quote:
Released on February 8, 1989, ATF Order 3310.4(b) explains ATF’s Firearms Enforcement Program. The Department of Justice and ATF relied on this Order to defend Operation Fast and Furious. ATF leadership in Phoenix believed a specific clause within the Order, section 148(a)(2), justified Operation Fast and Furious and its policy to allow guns to walk. The clause reads as follows:
148. “WEAPONS TRANSFERS”
a. Considerations. During the course of illegal firearms trafficking
investigations, special agents may become aware of, observe, or
encounter situations where an individual(s) will take delivery of
firearms, or transfer firearm(s) to others. In these instances, the special
agent may exercise the following options:
* * *
(2) In other cases, immediate intervention may not be needed or
desirable, and the special agent may choose to allow the transfer of
firearms to take place in order to further an investigation and allow
for the identification of additional coconspirators who would have
continued to operate and illegally traffic firearms in the future,
potentially producing more armed crime.1
ATF’s reliance on this section of the Order is misguided. The phrase “immediate intervention may not be needed or desirable” does not justify a complete lack of intervention with regard to thousands of weapons illegally purchased by straw buyers allegedly linked to drug cartels. ATF cited this Order in an early briefing paper that contained the following paragraph:
Currently our strategy is to allow the transfer of firearms to continue to
take place, albeit at a much slower pace, in order to further the
investigation and allow for the identification of co-conspirators who
would continue to operate and illegally traffic firearms to Mexican DTOs
which are perpetrating armed violence along the Southwest Border. This
is all in compliance with ATF 3310.4(b) 148(a)(2). It should be noted that
since early December efforts to “slow down” the pace of these firearms
purchases have succeeded and will continue but not to the detriment of
the larger goal of the investigation. It should also be noted that the pace
of firearms procurement by this straw purchasing group from late
September to early December, 2009 defied the “normal” pace of
procurement by other firearms trafficking groups investigated by this and
other field divisions. This “blitz” was extremely out of the ordinary and
created a situation where measures had to be enacted in order to slow this
pace down in order to perfect a criminal case.2
This statement leaves little doubt that ATF felt Operation Fast and Furious was compliant with existing ATF policy. Further, it shows that DOJ and ATF knew from an early date that the firearms were being illegally trafficked to Mexican drug cartels. Although senior ATF management cited the Order as justification for Fast and Furious, it did not pass muster with street agents. They believed that it did not permit a total lack of intervention. Agents believed they must interdict at some point if they have knowledge of an illegal firearms transfer. Yet senior management used the Order to justify the notion that ATF would completely drop surveillance of the weapons and then wait until receiving trace requests when the weapons were eventually recovered at crime scenes. Such traces would supposedly create a “nexus” between the drug cartels and the straw purchasers. The agents, however, did not agree with any interpretation of the order that would be consistent with that kind of strategy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wade52
I don't think you're aware that those are administration agencies and not beholden to the legislative branch, which is what the House is. Issa is playing an obvious political card by trying to tie up Obama in legal action at the beginning of a campaign season.
Quote:
This shift in strategy was known and authorized at the highest levels of the Justice Department. Through both the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Arizona and “Main Justice,” headquarters in Washington, D.C., the Department closely monitored and supervised the activities of the ATF. The Phoenix Field Division established a Gun Trafficking group, called Group VII, to focus on firearms trafficking. Group VII initially began using the new gunwalking tactics in one of its investigations to further the Department’s strategy. The case was soon renamed “Operation Fast and Furious,” and expanded dramatically. It received approval for Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force (OCDETF) funding on January 26, 2010. ATF led a strike force comprised of agents from ATF, Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS).
Right. Read thru all the "inciteful, verified proof" so prominently on display. The end result, false assertions will still be false assertions, and like the passing of gas, will dissipate in the wind.
Its false that they wont release the documents? Its false that he was found in Contempt of Congress? Its false someone died? Its false they claimed Executive Priviledge?
The fact is that the gun-running began under Bush and the GOP House had no problem with it. Holder has shut down "fast and furious" and what Issa is trying to build into a big case is access to confidential email between the White House and the Justic Dept.
I don't think you're aware that those are administration agencies and not beholden to the legislative branch, which is what the House is. Issa is playing an obvious political card by trying to tie up Obama in legal action at the beginning of a campaign season.
Message to Holder/Obama/Dems: Hand over the documents, or stop complaining.
Youve had 18 damn months to hand them over, and you stone walled and lied the entire time.
And you liberals only have Holder and Obama to blame for this. Had they complied, itd be over with. UNLESS, something was damning to the Obama Admin. And everything is pointing in that direction, which is what you and this administration fear.
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My prediction...
