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Old 07-27-2012, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 11,580,413 times
Reputation: 4262

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
So that's how you deal with your disability. Other people deal with their disabilities differently. I know people who have been in a wheelchair since as early as 3 years old, and for their whole lives after that. And yes, a lot of those people would like an accessible checkout. I'm not debating whether you're disabled or not, and don't think you need to prove to anyone you're disabled by listing your meds on an online forum. That said, three months in a chair, compared to people who've spent their whole lives in a chair, isn't a very long time to spend in a chair. I do think that you seem to lack perspective in terms of wheelchair-accessibility based on your opinion and the fact you've spent most of your time with crutches rather than in a chair.

Here's a question for you: when you were in a chair, could you stand up out of it if you needed to? Could you transfer yourself from your chair to a toilet, or bed? I know people who can't even wipe their own butt. They are in a very different situation and need the wheelchair-accessible checkout far more than someone who needs the chair cause they can't walk long distances, but can stand up out of it if push comes to shove. My intention isn't to seem rude, but I just want to point out it's a different experience. We just had that issue on campus, for example. The student who was placed as a consult for wheelchair accessibility was able to stand up out of her chair and as a result, missed a lot of accessibility issues that are specific to wheelchair users who can't get out of their chair. Some buttons, for example, were too high for other chair users to reach even though she could reach them. So with no criticism intended to you, just because you have been in a wheelchair and don't find something inaccessible, doesn't mean that's the case for all wheelchair users. There's a huge variety and range of disabling conditions that require someone to use a wheelchair, from having weak muscles or arthritic joints to being fully quadriplegic with a ventilator and stomach tube. All of those conditions entail different abilities and disabilities and some of those chair users may need the lower self-checkout more than you do.
Now wait a minute. What you are describing are people that are completely dependent upon others for their most basic requirements, even wiping their own butts. These are people that would not survive without constant supervision and a number of selfless or paid assisstants. That does not mean this self-interest group gets to force the rest of this nation to alter everything we are capable of, to accomodate those that aren't as capable. This has gone far far beyond what is reasonable. Repeal this travesty called Americans with Disability Act, it is nothing but a shakedown by unscrupulous greedy lawyers.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 11,580,413 times
Reputation: 4262
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Thank you for your concern and willingness to be helpful ... understand, please, that the greatest gift of help you can give a disabled person is: the dignity of independence -- through *accessibility*.
Get over it yourself. No one is "designing all [your] houses for [you]". what we are doing is creating a reasonably equal society in as many ways as possible. Accept your challenge of that principle and get on with a life of dignity for all.
What do unions have to do with handicap accommodation?
We are NOT equal, and using the force of the government will not make it so.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 11,580,413 times
Reputation: 4262
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
The vast majority of wheelchair users I know personally go out on their own all the time. Three of them (two of them really close friends of mine so we spend a lot of time together) use a power chair so there's no needing to fold their chair. The two manual chair users I know generally don't fold their chairs. They don't need assistance if things are accessible in the simplest of ways, such as having a lowered checkout counter, and having ramps, wheelchair lifts, and elevators wherever there are steps. One of the power chair users I know drives, and in order to drive, he just has to drive his wheelchair into his van, and he's able to transfer himself from power chair to driver's seat. I should mention that all the people I am thinking of are also deaf or also mute and they still manage to get around on their own just fine. Something like a lowered checkout so they can live more freely is not a lot to ask.
How about, instead of lowering all the counters to accomodate wheelchairs, we put a button on the chair that raises it to a high chair?
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 11,580,413 times
Reputation: 4262
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
Which is already the case. Shelves on a store, packaged items, displays (which are usually set at a height so that people standing up can appreciate them) are all completely inaccessible to blind people and wheelchair users but you don't see us complaining about that. All we want to do is be able to pay for our own items at a store independently. ATM machines, even with braille, are inaccessible to deaf-blind people, but no one is asking for refreshable braille on ATMs, cause we know that's unreasonable. No one is asking for all staff to know sign language, etc. There are plenty of aspects of life that are and will always remain inaccessible to deaf people, blind people, wheelchair users, and people with various other disabilities. However, we are just asking to be accommodated in areas that are feasible. Lowering a self-checkout is completely feasible. I agree, the ATM is a reasonable accommodation if it's in the same store and is itself wheelchair-accessible (which is definitely not always the case). But no one is demanding everything be accessible.

I really think most able-bodied don't realize the vast multitude of things in day-to-day life that are inaccessible. It would be great if some kind of program were set up to allow able-bodied people to elect living with a simulated disability for a week. Just the other day, my sighted friend decided to explore the city with me blind, and it was a great learning experience for him. He really didn't understand exactly what I could and couldn't do, what was truly a hindrance to me and what wasn't, and even just a day of simulated blindness with me there giving him directions on how to navigate the world gave him a lot of perspective.

I would really urge other people, particularly posters, to see if they can't borrow someone's chair for a day and to go throughout the whole day doing your usual routine, from a chair. Or at least spend the day with someone who uses a wheelchair. I know that before I met so many wheelchair users, I never thought about if the restaurant I wanted to go to would have steps (sometimes even just one big step that made the whole place inaccessible). I never thought about whether the tables would all be too high, with stools, or whether the doors would have push buttons, or open automatically, etc. Now I can't go anywhere without thinking about those things, because even though I've never been in a chair myself, I spend so much time with people who use chairs that I have to factor in wheelchair-accessibility when I make plans. Often, businesses think they are more accessible than they really are too. For example, I've had many experiences where my friend and I called ahead of time to see if a place was accessible, and of course the manager was happy to tell us it was, only to find there was one step that the manager forgot to count, or that the ramp was so steep it was unusable, or that the main area was accessible but the bathrooms weren't. It's easy for people who don't have to think about these things to blow it off as frivolous, but try to imagine that's you're life every day. Try to imagine what it would feel like if some easily surmountable architectural barrier was all it took for you not to be able to enter an establishment or benefit from its services.
Isn't the whole construct of being disabled mean LIMITATIONS? That's why the feds provide you with checks every month, because your ability's are limited!!!!
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,187 posts, read 996,631 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
Anyone who believes this needs to live with a disability for at least a week.
How about living with one for a lifetime? How about living with a sister who was in a full body cast for about 10 years and then partially paralyzed on one side of her body for last 30 years? Is that good enough?? And yes, I agree with that OP that it should be scrapped!
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,187 posts, read 996,631 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt. Buzzcut View Post
The contempt spewed forth by the anti-disabled is alarming. Nothing short of public flogging of the disabled will satisfy the bloodthirsty.
Seriously this is rediculous! No one has spewed hatred towards the disabled, only towards the law itself and the rediculousness of the lawsuits that it causes. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean they are doing anything other than disagreeing with you. It's not hate, bigotry or slaming of anyone but the rediculous law and the suits that are encouraged by it!
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 11,580,413 times
Reputation: 4262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman View Post
Even with ADA laws and good intentions in place there are still unforeseen challenges everywhere. I once took my husband to a supposed wheelchair accessible bathroom in a brand new hospital and we could get the wheelchair into the room but we couldn't close the door. Someone had hung it swinging in instead of out and it took months before they got that corrrected. It's also not unusual for people owning a building with an accessible bathroom to move a storage cabinet into the room, taking up the space necessary to maneuver the wheelchair around. Too bad that can't teach common sense because it's in short supply in the States.
Life is hard. I'm sure if you asked to have the cabinet moved, they would do so. As for the bathroom door, just close the entry door to the private room until you are done using the bathroom, until that problem can be corrected. A little cooperation and understanding works both ways.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,187 posts, read 996,631 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
Not everyone has a credit card.

Not everyone carries cash.
Then they are CHOOSING to put themselves into a situation that isn't conducive to their own limitations. The world does NOT revolve around you just because you're disabled!

Why why why do so many insist on the world bending over backwards because of YOU? It's like the stupid rules so many schools have to accommodate the POSSIBLE child that MIGHT have peanut allergies so they ban anything made from peanuts at the schools. Totally asinine!
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,187 posts, read 996,631 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
Why is that unreasonable? Especially in this poor economy, it's hard for a lot of people to get a credit card because they have bad credit. I know that I personally don't carry cash because it's easier to steal, and easier for people to cheat me with my money. I don't trust strangers with cash, and a wheelchair user shouldn't have to trust a stranger with their PIN number. A wheelchair user shouldn't be forced to have 4 payment methods available either, just because they're disabled. IMO that's unreasonable. What's so unreasonable about wanting to give disabled people the same number of options as able-bodied people?
Is there such a thing as a debit card that is not also a credit card? I have yet to find one!
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,187 posts, read 996,631 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
I don't buy hot dogs off the street. I usually carry a few dollars for a bus fare/vending machine. I'm sure you wouldn't want to trust strangers all day every day with telling you whether that's a $1 or a $20 bill. I get around just fine with a credit card and less than $5 in cash at all times (less than $5 doesn't require me to trust anyone). That said, not everyone can get a credit card, because they have bad credit. Those people are always down one option. I honestly have never met someone who actually writes checks at a store...but if people still do that, great. There's also a difference between having a few bucks to buy a hot dog and having $150 on hand to buy all your groceries and other household supplies. Being forced pay with cash at Walmart is a completely different ballgame to having to find $2 for a soda from a street vendor.
Why would you have to trust anyone, except maybe the bank teller when you first get your money? My step-grandmother was blind and she folded her bills differently for every denomination, so she always knew what bills she had, how much, and what she was using. This was LONG before debit cards were common... do they not teach that anymore?
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