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depends on the college. Most selective colleges want to see advanced coursework, and like AP, postAP and/or IB classes. Not sure about the credit, as my kid did AP not IB, but I would think most would take IB.
Some kids do well with AP, some with IB. IB has more writing and essays generally than IB, is my understanding.
If AP goes international are the nutsos going to turn on it too? Just hostile to everything "international" ?
There's already a lot to read through, but it is important for parents and taxpayers (and educators and Board of Ed trustees) to realize that The College Board already offers an International AP Diploma called the APID. As I demonstrated in another post, the totally specious claim that universities like Oxford and Cambridge do not recognize an American HS Diploma along with excellent SAT/ACT and AP scores for undergraduate admissions, is complete and total BUNK! I have heard this same nonsense spouted by IB Consultants to school groups and it makes my blood boil!
Why? Because IB is sold based on hearsay, self-praise, exaggeration and outright LIES. IB is a product. AP is a product. The consumers are the children and the purchasers are the taxpayers. Put aside the political/social justice/indoctrination aspect for a moment and let's just concentrate on the fiscal "sustainability" of IB, when we have AP available for a fraction of the cost. What is it you are buying?
1. IB is proprietary. This means that if someone wants to know in advance what the syllabus of any given course might be, you have to purchase the course guide from the IB Store. No such secrecy with AP. You can review the content of every AP course online for free.
2. IB requires annual membership "dues" of $10,400 per IB Diploma Programme. IB mandates the hiring of an IB Coordinator (minimum .5 position) and 3 Levels of teacher training. Let's discuss mandatory IB teacher training for a moment. These 3-4 day junkets which are almost never held within the state of the school seeking IB authorization, cost on average $1500-2000 per teacher, per workshop level. During the "authorization" process, a district will spend a minimum of $60,000 - $125,000 per year (min. 2 yrs. and depending on the size of the school and number of teachers needing to be trained) After authorization, training and conferences will average at least $30-50,000 per year. I forgot to mention the $23,000 worth of Application fees ... oops. Oh, and the IB Coordinator position goes into effect at the beginning of the application process. AP HAS NONE OF THESE MANDATES OR COSTS!
3. IB itself, is not "accredited" by any "higher authority" (such as the Middle States Association, etc.) Schools are paying for a pseudo-designer label.
4. IB claims a student's intellectual property for its own, to be used for any purpose IB "deems appropriate" upon submission of student work to IBO for assessment. Try fighting the Swiss on intellectual property law in the courts of Geneva, Switzerland. I would think that all of these so called educators would have a little more pride and respect for their student's work that they would want to protect their rights. Please read the section regarding Copyright in IB's regulations.
Quote:
6.2 Candidates retain copyright in all materials submitted for assessment purposes, but by submitting
those materials, subject to article 6.4, candidates thereby grant the IB Organization a non-exclusive,
charge-free, worldwide licence, for the duration of the statutory copyright protection, to reproduce
submitted materials in any medium for assessment, educational, training and/or promotional
purposes relating to the IB Organization’s activities, or to those related activities of which it approves.
Such licence shall become effective from 1 June following the May examinations and 1 December
following the November examinations.
6.3 Where the IB Organization uses these materials for purposes other than assessment, it may modify,
translate or otherwise change them to meet particular needs and will anonymize them before
publication in print or in electronic form. If the purpose of the publication is to focus on work of
a particularly high standard the candidate and school may be identified and the school informed beforehand
5. Any disputes or arbitration must be handled in the courts of Geneva, Switzerland under Swiss Law.
Quote:
Article 31: Governing law
Swiss law governs these general regulations and all other procedures relating to the assessment
requirements.
There are many colleges that accept the IB diploma and the number is growing.
Brown University for one
Rutgers is another
Harvard for another
Many more are listed here. Country information
Note that if your purpose is only to earn credits, the AP classes may fit. The IB program, however, emphasizes critical thinking, writing and essays which the AP classes are weaker on, imo. The math and science APs are excellent, but I don't think you can beat IB when it comes to the English or History component (yeah, I know the antis here think history is distorted in IB, but frankly, it gives a wider perspective).
No one has disputed that many universities recognize the IB Diploma. You happen to mention two Ivy League schools where tuition currently runs in excess of $55,000 per year with room and board. It is not so common knowledge that the Ivy League does not award merit scholarships, only financial aid. Therefore, earning an IB Diploma with a score of 38 or higher (range of 24-45) might earn a top student ADMISSION to the Ivies, but it won't necessarily let them enter as sophomores as is widely promised by IB consultants. (who make a living touring the U.S. hawking this product to the tune of $2500-3500 per visit).
The question remains though .... why should American taxpayers fund this outrageously expensive, superfluous, UNESCO affiliated elitist program, when AP is more fiscally responsible, transparent, globally recognized and relatively free of political bias?
I never understood this love affair with IB. We used to just have honors classes, then added AP and now IB. But we still don't produce very good students which is reflected in the high drop out rate in the colleges.
I never understood this love affair with IB. We used to just have honors classes, then added AP and now IB. But we still don't produce very good students which is reflected in the high drop out rate in the colleges.
Thank you for your observation. The key is in identifying who "loves IB" and "why"?
In the case of Superintendents, School Board Trustees and School Administrators, all of their stated belief in IB's alleged superiority are often closely tied to not what I can really call kickbacks, but let's call them "employment perks". The 3-4 day junkets to South Beach or Hawaii, annual IB Conference at a 5 star hotel, perhaps membership on the IB Board itself as in the case of MI Principal Bert Okma or Binghamton HS's Principal Dr. Albert Penna.
Why do some parents buy into IB? Mainly because they want to brown-nose the school Admin so that their kids are favored. IB even provides a Playbook how to deal with controversy and the "right" people for the Admin to win to their side of the court:
One well known homeschool program, Abeka, uses video recordings of class lectures combined with book work. It's like sitting in the actual classroom. Our children were so far ahead of public school students that they aced the GED after Grade 10 and entered college two years early. Both have now graduated from fully accredited Universities and our son has a Master's Degree. I recommend it highly.
Quote:
Most kids can ace their GED by grade 10 since they only have to be reading at a 9th grade level and take a prep course. I know many who have done just that because they didn't like HS. Many also had problems after that since they were much younger than their college peers and at age 16 they were limited in where they could go and even where/if they could work. The ones I knew went to a community college and usually stayed there until their peers caught up because they STILL needed time to grow up and mature to get real with their lives. Graduating HS as early as possible isn't really a goal with meaning nor is life a race.
I have no problem with homeschooling but I don't see what the point of rushing kids through school is either. It probably is a good choice for a few kids but not in general.
The total number of applicants in December 2010 was 17,343. This was an increase of 1.2 per cent over the corresponding figure of 17,144 in December 2009 and was at that time the largest number ever recorded.
The total number of acceptances was 3,186. This 3,186 includes 64 places for deferred entry in October 2012.
12,107 applications (69.8%) came from those with UK nationality; 1,957 (11.3%) from those with EU (non-UK) nationality, and 3,279 (18.9%) from those with non-EU nationality.
2,661 (83.5%) of acceptances went to those with UK nationality; 213 (6.7%) to those with EU (non-UK) nationality, and 312 (9.8%) to those with non-EU nationality.
"and 312 (9.8%) to those with non-EU nationality" - this number includes Americans with bachelor's degrees and master's degrees, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders (and other people from Commonwealth countries), South Americans, Africans, Asians, non-EU Europeans (Swiss, Russians, etc.), Chinese and it also includes Rhodes Scholars (who already have bachelor's degrees).
So the occasional genius-level American student can get in without a bachelor's degree... maybe. The website you linked is obviously trying to lure Americans to apply so Oxford can advertise how selective it is, and boast about the number of applications... refused.
"and 312 (9.8%) to those with non-EU nationality" - this number includes Americans with bachelor's degrees and master's degrees, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders (and other people from Commonwealth countries), South Americans, Africans, Asians, non-EU Europeans (Swiss, Russians, etc.), Chinese and it also includes Rhodes Scholars (who already have bachelor's degrees).
So the occasional genius-level American student can get in without a bachelor's degree... maybe. The website you linked is obviously trying to lure Americans to apply so Oxford can advertise how selective it is, and boast about the number of applications... refused.
To be clear, Oxford and Cambridge are the UK's "sisters" to U.S.A's Harvard and Yale. The .pdf I linked is issued by Oxford and clearly spells out what its academic requirements are to be considered for admission. Oxford, like Harvard, admits only a small percentage of its total applicants, I think Harvard was around 9.2% last year. I am well aware that a Rhodes Scholar already has their bachelor's degree, as my daughter was nominated for the Rhodes Scholarship in her senior year at NYU.
This does not change the fact that your previous statement is patently false:
Quote:
To enter an Oxford or Cambridge college, an American must already have a Bachelor's Degree from a U.S. university. It is possible to gain entrance to some of the "red-brick" universities with 2 years of U.S. college which is considered in the UK to be the equivalent of "A" levels... or the IB. The same is true of all universities in Europe. The American High School diploma is not recognized.
The IB Diploma is NOT equivalent to a 4 year baccalaureate (bachelor's degree) or a 2 year Associates Degree. It is an additional high school "college prep" programme, nothing more.
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