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1. I don't think anyone is "pro-abortion" - well, at least very few people.
2. Most pro-choicers DO focus on pregnancy prevention, including the support of comprehensive sex education, birth control availability, counseling, and low-cost healthcare at clinics like PP. Your question is better asked of the anti-choice crowd, who typically favor things like eliminating sex ed in schools, discouraging birth control, and restricting access to pregnancy prevention services. Or do you believe those methods help? Statistics show they only make things worse, sorry to say!
i think it is a process, and probably both sides need to have conservations. i think your post is reasonable and well-stated, but there do seem to be some "abortion pushers" on this forum, and we all know there is big money in abortion.
women obviously need birth control methods, just as men do, but abortion should be on the bottom of any birth control list.
i think we agree on that.
hopefully, there will even be better forms of birth control available in the future (and hopefully some other forms for men to take)--just as the morning after pill came along to help prevent abortions. i always thought that there should be more focus on male birth control, since one man can "pollinate many flowers".
if pro-abortionists are so concerned about women, why don't they focus on preventing pregnancies before they happen-instead of pushing abortion afterwards. isn't that something that everyone should agree on?
abortion is NOT a good form of birth control, and can have health complications. people have actually DIED having abortions, but that seems to get glossed over by the pro abortion crowd.
maybe it is a good idea for some people to remind people that abortion shouldn't be considered a method of birth control, especially when you have the morning after pill-which the profiteers don't seem to be pointing out too much.
education is, and always will be, the answer to the problem.
as a society, we need to get to the place where women make better choices than abortion-and pushing abortion doesn't help us get there.
Ummm, isn't that was "pro-abortionists" do? I mean, it seems to be that there is a very hard push for sex education, easy access to contraception, to include passing it out "for free" to the more vulnerable groups. It's been my observation that their attempts to "focus on preventing pregnancies" seems to be thwarted at every turn by the "pro-fetusers". They want it both ways: no abortion but no prevention either, oh and lets not "talk" about it either because just talking about sex makes people want to have it.
We oppose birth control because it encourages sex before marriage, and we, as Catholics, believe in abstinence, which, if you think about it, is birth control. And it's 100% effective.
Do you believe everything the leaders of your religion say?
How about what some of the early leaders thought about women:
Pope Gregory: ( 540 - 604 AD) "Woman is slow in understanding and her unstable and naive mind renders her by way of natural weakness to the necessity of a strong hand in her husband. Her 'use' is two fold; sex and motherhood."
John Chrysostom: (347 - 407 AD)
"..the male sex enjoyed the higher honor. Man was first formed"
"He wishes the man to have the preeminence in every way." "for the sex is weak and fickle".
"It does not profit a man to marry. For what is a woman but an enemy of friendship, an inescapable punishment, a necessary evil, a natural temptation, a domestic danger, delectable mischief, a fault in nature, painted with beautiful colors?...The whole of her body is nothing less than phlegm, blood, bile, rheum and the fluid of digested food ..."
Boethius: (c 480 - 524 AD)
"Woman is a temple built over a sewer."
Tertullian: (c 160 – 225 AD) "The curse God pronounced on your sex still weighs on the world."
"You are the devil's gateway"
"You are the first that deserted the divine laws. All too easily you destroyed the image of God, Adam".
"You led astray one whom the devil would not dare attack directly. It was your fault that the Son of God had to die; you should always go in mourning and rags."
Clement of Alexandria: (c 150 - 215 AD) "the consciousness of their own nature must evoke feelings of shame".
Augustine: (354–430 AD) "Why was woman created at all?" "Woman was merely man's helpmate, a function which pertains to her alone. She is not the image of God but as far as man is concerned, he is by himself the image of God."
"I don't see what sort of help woman was created to provide man with, if one excludes procreation. If woman is not given to man for help in bearing children, for what help could she be? To till the earth together? If help were needed for that, man would have been a better help for man. The same goes for comfort in solitude. How much more pleasure is it for life and conversation when two friends live together than when a man and a woman cohabitate?" (he sounds like a closet case to me)
Ambrose: (c 337- c 397 AD) "Adam was deceived by Eve, not Eve by Adam... it is right that he whom that woman induced to sin should assume the role of guide lest he fall again through feminine instability."
St Jerome: (c 347- 420 AD) "woman is the root of all evil."
"It is contrary to the order of nature and of the law for women to speak in a gathering"
Origen: (c 184 - c 253 AD)
"For [as Paul declares] "I do not permit a woman to teach," and even less "to tell a man what to do."
Albertus Magnus: (c 1200 - 1280 AD) "Woman is less qualified [than man] for moral behavior. For the woman contains more liquid than man, and it is a property of liquid to take things up easily and to hold unto them poorly."
"Woman is a misbegotten man and has a faulty and defective nature in comparison to his"
Thomas Aquinas: (1225 - 1274 AD) "Woman was made only to assist with procreation."
"So by such a kind of subjection woman is naturally subject to man, because in men the discretion of reason predominates."
And of course Paul: "Now I permit a woman neither to teach nor exercise authority over a man, but let her be in quietness. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived [when he sinned]; but the woman, having [first] been thoroughly deceived, became [involved] in the transgression [of Adam].
It continued with the Protestant churches:
Martin Luther: (1483- 1586 AD) "Women should remain at home, sit still, keep house and bear and bring up children" "If a woman grows weary and at last dies from childbearing, it matters not. Let her die from bearing, she is there to do it." "the wife should stay at home and look after the affairs of the household as one who has been deprived of the ability of administering those affairs that are outside and concern the state…." "There is no gown or garment that worse becomes a woman than when she would be wise."
John Calvin: (1509 - 1564 AD) "All women are born that they may acknowledge themselves as inferior to the male." "the woman's place is in the home."
i think it is a process, and probably both sides need to have conservations. i think your post is reasonable and well-stated, but there do seem to be some "abortion pushers" on this forum, and we all know there is big money in abortion.
women obviously need birth control methods, just as men do, but abortion should be on the bottom of any birth control list.
i think we agree on that.
hopefully, there will even be better forms of birth control available in the future (and hopefully some other forms for men to take)--just as the morning after pill came along to help prevent abortions. i always thought that there should be more focus on male birth control, since one man can "pollinate many flowers".
How about mandatory reversible vasectomies for all males past puberty? If they want children and want the vasectomy to be reversed, they have to obtain a signed statement from a woman that she agrees to get pregnant by him and that he will take 50% responsibility for the child.
Sounds draconian? So is forcing a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term and give birth against her will.
Look at the street view from google maps of the PP centre they 'preyed' in front of. There are very small grassed areas on either side of the path to the entrance of clinic:
Google Maps
1108 16th Street NW Washington, District of Columbia 20036
Can you imagine what it would be like to walk that short pathway between these self-righeous, self absorbed zealots? Even with an escort to try to shield you from being harassed
Look at the street view from google maps of the PP centre they 'preyed' in front of. There are very small grassed areas on either side of the path to the entrance of clinic:
Google Maps
1108 16th Street NW Washington, District of Columbia 20036
Can you imagine what it would be like to walk that short pathway between these self-righeous, self absorbed zealots? Even with an escort to try to shield you from being harassed
Yeah, it's ridiculous. I live in the DC area and there are a good number of Christian schools as well as colleges and the students frequently "visit" these places. It's really rude and intolerant.
Anyway, the OP lost me at the words "Christendom College." I have a relative who went there. I won't say any more.
There were about 30-40 of us all together. At this PP there are "pro-choice escorts" (they actually where shirts that say this) and some of them were nice and some of them tried to intimidate us. As we were praying a nice jogger lady flipped us off, a young black man yelled some obscene things to us, people pointed and people laughed.
Some other people came and said the rosary on the sidewalk. There was a protestant man and a catholic man that stood out on the sidewalk begging women not to have the abortions and trying to tell them about the places they could go for help.
A man that worked in the PP came out and walked to his car for a cig, as he was walking he knocked the fliers out of the protestant hands and onto the ground and laughed, as he walked back he paused to cuss the man out and shove him around.
I counted 9 individual women and 3 groups of women that went in that day. Every time one would walk by I swallowed tears and bile and looked each woman in the eye, silently pleading for her to stop what she was doing. One woman as she walked by spat on us and 3 others called us names, giving the "escorts" a little chuckle.
When we were done and walked back we all shook hands with the "escorts", the nice ones and the creepy/rude one and wished them all a wonderful day. Once we got back to the car I couldn't stop myself anymore I cried for a long time and couldn't eat for hours (I have a verrrrryyyyyy strong stomach)
There are a few points to me telling you all this:
1) Liberals/pro-choice people who spout tolerance, learn some."""
YOU have no tolerance for women seeking medical help and YOU want tolerance???
""2) When you see people praying, whether you are Atheist, Christian, Conservative or Liberal, show some respect and don't be rude."""
Solutionon't show off praying in public
""3) People who are pro-life: I talk about this issue a lot and i have always been very pro-life but after this experience I realize that you have to do more than just talk about it, you have to try to help people.
Thanks for reading.
""Once we got back to the car I couldn't stop myself anymore I cried for a long time and couldn't eat for hours""
And who did this to you?
YOU!
Why didn't your chants and incantations protect you from all that angst?
What DID your chants and incantations accomplish?
Why don't you go to a homeless shelter and pray for the kids there?
Why don't you go to a school in a poor neighborhood and pray for those children?????
Why don't you do your schtick for kids who have just lost their homes to foreclosure??
Why don't you DO something for abused children????
if pro-abortionists are so concerned about women, why don't they focus on preventing pregnancies before they happen-instead of pushing abortion afterwards. isn't that something that everyone should agree on?"""
NO, Republicans are against Birth Control unless it's an "aspirin between the woman's knees"
""""abortion is NOT a good form of birth control, and can have health complications. people have actually DIED having abortions, but that seems to get glossed over by the pro abortion crowd.""""
YES, when abortions were illegal women died from botched abortions....the Anti-Woman/Anti-Choice crowd LOVES that and wants it back!!!!
"""maybe it is a good idea for some people to remind people that abortion shouldn't be considered a method of birth control, especially when you have the morning after pill-which the profiteers don't seem to be pointing out too much.
education is, and always will be, the answer to the problem.
as a society, we need to get to the place where women make better choices than abortion-and pushing abortion doesn't help us get there.
NOBODY "pushes" abortion....that is a lie.
"""""get to the place where women make better choices"""
Women make the best choice for them and always have....!
They don't need someone else telling them what their ONLY "choice" can be.
I hope we get to a place where MEN make better choices, they really need help since they're such helpless little children.....
Ahhh I see the OP has taken a powder I'm still waiting for an answer to my question
Ain't gonna happen!
They spout and run.....the questions are SO inconvenient...LOL!
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on't show off praying in public
I'm still waiting for an answer to my question