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Were you screaming Bush is a Muslim because he celebrate Ramadan? If not, why are you screaming now when it is Obama?
And no, Obama isn't a Christian because Bush was, or vice versa. Being a Christian or not, is about personal beliefs, and these men have been put in a position to govern in the capacity of the President, to honor what the US Constitution demands: No preference to ANY religion. Keep your religion personal. Do NOT make it sit above others. This ain't supposed to be a Christian Mullah-land.
I take it that is why y'all are hell bent to repeal and replace the US Constitution.
The modern welfare state of most developed countries can be traced back to Christian ideas of charity, social stability and social justice teachings from the Catholic church and Mainline Protestant denominations in reaction to the social Darwinism of the industrial revolution. Government (the people) became the supplier of charity because religion had neither the capacity to handle the immense need nor the desire to administer it without prejudice.
Frankly, the Prosperity Gospel that has influenced contemporary evangelicalism is heresy. This new supply side Jesus who shows his love and blessings through material possessions is a complete 180 from the Jesus of the Gospels.
while prosperous ( so popular in the usa ) christianity is the worst offender , compared to catholicism , all protestant religons promote selfishness and individualism to some degree , now thats not to say that im a statist akin to the french but what kind of politics i perfer i irrelvant , jesus was unquestionabley a supporter of redistribution of wealth , he constantly called on the rich to give all thier wealth to the poor and railed against the rich and powerfull , i dont believe a lot of what he said was practical in the real world but i know what he said none the less , like i said earlier , many of the ministers who feature strongly in the GOP have managed to fuse traditional christianity with the teachings of hayek and the austrian school of economics , its truly bizzare
I would have to read more. I don't have time right now, but I don't understand how his mindset 47 years later would prove whether he intended for this to be Christian nation or not. There is some holes in that argument. If you can connect that letter to him writing the Declaration of Independence I would love to see it.
Because that is not the only one they did, or will do. And yet, you singled out Ramadan celebration for Obama, suggesting that as some kind of proof of him not being a Christian. Why?
Because that is not the only one they did, or will do. And yet, you singled out Ramadan celebration for Obama, suggesting that as some kind of proof of him not being a Christian. Why?
No it was an example of why people are accusing him of such. That alone does that draw that conclusion. We are chasing our tails because other people have already addressed this point.
Were you screaming Bush is a Muslim because he celebrate Ramadan? If not, why are you screaming now when it is Obama?
And no, Obama isn't a Christian because Bush was, or vice versa. Being a Christian or not, is about personal beliefs, and these men have been put in a position to govern in the capacity of the President, to honor what the US Constitution demands: No preference to ANY religion. Keep your religion personal. Do NOT make it sit above others. This ain't supposed to be a Christian Mullah-land.
Most people weren't looking at Bush like he was a devout Christian. There is a difference.
They don't have to do these dinners. That's the point. If they didn't do them, we wouldn't say they aren't doing their jobs.
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Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
I take it that is why y'all are hell bent to repeal and replace the US Constitution.
Who is "y'all"? I have no idea who you are talking about. I am an individual with my own views, that doesn't necessary represent a group of other people.
I would have to read more. I don't have time right now, but I don't understand how his mindset 47 years later would prove whether he intended for this to be Christian nation or not. There is some holes in that argument. If you can connect that letter to him writing the Declaration of Independence I would love to see it.
Here is a connection, from the Notes on the State of Virginia...
"The present state of our laws on the subject of religion is this. The convention of May 1776, in their declaration of rights, declared it to be a truth, and a natural right, that the exercise of religion should be free. By our own act of assembly of 1705, c. 30, if a person brought up in the Christian religion denies the being of a God, or the Trinity, or asserts there are more Gods than one, or denies the Christian religion to be true, or the scriptures to be of divine authority, he is punishable on the first offence by incapacity to hold any office or employment ecclesiastical, civil, or military; on the second by disability to sue, to take any gift or legacy, to be guardian, executor, or administrator, and by three years imprisonment, without bail. A father's right to the custody of his own children being founded in law on his right of guardianship, this being taken away, they may of course be severed from him, and put, by the authority of a court, into more orthodox hands. This is a summary view of that religious slavery, under which a people have been willing to remain, who have lavished their lives and fortunes for the establishment of their civil freedom."
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtitans
Most people weren't looking at Bush like he was a devout Christian. There is a difference.
But, was he a Muslim? I'm not asking you to speak for others, but yourself. You certainly didn't call him a Muslim for that, did you?
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They don't have to do these dinners. That's the point. If they didn't do them, we wouldn't say they aren't doing their jobs.
They are doing these dinners, as respect for other religions, not just pushing their own. Get it?
Quote:
Who is "y'all"? I have no idea who you are talking about. I am an individual with my own views, that doesn't necessary represent a group of other people.
You're an individual who belongs to a collective, who you also choose to speak for, in the same tune, with the same loyalty to that tune, and with a discipline that makes you integral. I hope that clarifies it.
However - what's the difference between good policy and forcing one's religion? It can be blurry at times.
The Bible says you shall not commit murder. Are we forcing Christianity down people's throats when supporting laws against murder?
So you must be against the Death Penalty too, right? Please don't come back with "an eye for an eye" since several innocent people who were put to death were later exonerated by DNA or other evidence.
Also, does this just apply to Americans, since I don't remember Moses being at Mount Sinai Hospital (or is that where he got the 2 tablets?)
What I mean is, when we dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, do you believe it was justifiable murder according to the Bible? What about "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." Matthew 5: 44 and aren't you forgetting when Peter asked Jesus about revenge?
"Lord, if my brother keeps sinning against me, how many times do I have to forgive him? Seven times?"
"No, not seven times,” answered Jesus, "but seventy times seven." Matthew 18: 21-22
Please show me where Jesus said that, if you are an American, you can kill thousands of women and children in Iraq. Show me where it says that napalming a village in Vietnam while little children screamed as flesh melted off their bones is okay because our government thought burning people alive was more efficient. Show me where it tells Christians to come to a new land and slaughter the Native Tribes and then call it America. Show me where it says to go to another land, capture its people, and put them in chains to be your slaves? Oh, I forgot. The Bible did talk about owning slaves, although it said to treat them kindly.
Regarding Biblical Law, do you believe men & women who commit adultery should be put to death? After all, that was in the Bible. Do you believe in stoning disobedient children?
People who often quote the Bible do it so selectively.
It's already been addressed by others. Look at many parts of his policies as an example (same-sex marriage, abortion, socialism)
I'll give you same-sex marriage and abortion as you at least have a theological basis for being opposed to both. However, saying socialism isn't compatible with Christianity is a view that is both ignorant of New Testament and early Christian teachings, and ignorant of the roots and early supporters of socialism. Also, and I can't stress this point enough, anyone who thinks this President is a socialist is either to the right of Franco or lacks the mental capacity to know what an actual socialist is.
Last edited by Mr. Mon; 10-22-2012 at 12:40 PM..
Reason: No need for me to yell
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(or is that where he got the 2 tablets?) 