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Also a good point, but didn't the Canadian system start at the provincial level?
The Canadian system is still run by the provinces with some federal funding. The Healthcare system in British Columbia is not the same as Ontario though they share a lot of the same practices.
The Canadian system is still run by the provinces with some federal funding. The Healthcare system in British Columbia is not the same as Ontario though they share a lot of the same practices.
Thats what I thought. That should address the one-size-fits-all complaint, don't you think?
The Canadian system is still run by the provinces with some federal funding.
The Healthcare system in British Columbia is not the same as Ontario though they share a lot of the same practices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Fingers
That's what I thought. That should address the one-size-fits-all complaint, don't you think?
Not really The US still had to thread the needle of our far larger issue:
the same old "states rights" complaints that get in the way of anything that might bring
us out of a 19th century approach to governance regardless of topic or merit.
I for one do not want politicians or federal employees to decide what care i can or cannot get. do you really want some bureaucrat to tell you what your surgery mother or your wifes mom can or cannot have?
Can't comment on what's happening in the U.S. but if your statement is in regard to all universal healthcare, it's totally incorrect, at least in Canada.
The gov't is not involved in your day to day medical needs. Doctors etc are totally free to do what is needed. Canadians are free to choose whichever doctor they want. I can even walk into any clinic, even if I'm not in my own city, and get care.
Here is a great article you should read. She's got it right.
This is like trying to argue with a racist or religious fanatic.
Would you care to comment on which one you are, the racist or the religious fanatic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
Three degrees of higher education…
Five, actually. A Bachelor of Science in Law Enforcement; Bachelors of Arts in Economics and Political Science; Master’s in Political Science; PhD in International Relations with Certificates in International Security and Homeland Security.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
I spent thirty years in the insurance field as an underwriter, ratemaker, and compliance officer. I retired and spent six years working in medical records of a major metropolitan hospital.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
From a previous post I made on increase of Health Insurance premiums:
"I worked in the insurance business for over 30 years as an underwriter, ratemaker, and compliance officer. When you increase the total pool of insureds, you pick up plenty of people that are healthier and won't use their insurance as much while also increasing the total dollars being pulled in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
I spent 30 years working in the insurance field as an underwriter, ratemaker, and compliance officer. I've personally argued with senior executives who were wanting me to ignore state statues and okay policy and/or rate changes that were in direct violation of those statutes because they could make more profit doing it the way they wanted to.
Ultimately I left the field before my working days were up and took a job in a medical records department earning about 15% of what I did as a compliance officer. But I slept better at night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
I did actuarial work for years, so I'm a numbers guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
I used to underwrite physician malpractice insurance as well as other lines of coverage. Thirty years as an underwriter, ratemaker, and compliance officer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
If we want to talk about insurance, I do have significant, if old, experience. I served in the insurance field for over 30 years as an underwriter, ratemaker, and compliance officer. I served three years on the Board of Directors of the Association of Insurance Compliance Professionals, two of those as the elected Treasurer of AICP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
During my last employment in the insurance field, I worked for a company that sold "warranties" for home, cars, electronics, and appliances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
My wife has worked in the health field for over twenty years. I worked for 30 years in the insurance field as an underwriter, ratemaker, and compliance officer…..
I then worked for six years in the medical records department of a major metropolitan hospital at 15% of the salary I was making as an insurance professional.
You made all of the above claims on this thread.
Do you deny that?
Having held yourself out as you did --- 8 separate claims --- you passed yourself off as some kind of expert in health insurance.
Is that not a fair characterization?
There is a Fallacious Argument known as “The Appeal To Authority.â€
Having made 8 separate claims alluding to the fact that you were some kind of expert, one might get the idea that you were attempting to mislead people by presenting yourself as an authority.
Since you are passing yourself off as an authority, shouldn’t we be able to qualify that in some way, so that readers may judge your credibility?
It is a matter of character, is it not?
In addition to passing yourself off as some kind of authority, you also made the following claims on this thread….
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
My own search shows that even non-profit hospitals are increasing bonuses to CEO's at an incredible rate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
I've been researching health insurance systems online for sometime now and feel I have some degree of knowledge about the inefficiency in ours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
I apologize to all for infractions on copyright material. I'm a good researcher, not a good computer person--as in, how do you make a link!!
…so you cannot now claim you don’t know how to do research.
I made the following post…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Figure 5 VA’s Expenditures on Health Care Services per Enrollee, by Priority Group, 2008
P1 $9,000
P2 $3,900
P3 $3,100
P4 $15,000
P5 $5,200
P6 $1,900
P7/8 $2,200
----------------
$5,757 = average cost per year (in 2010 US Dollars).
Page 18
Your response to that post was this….
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
Your stats, Mircea:
Figure 5 VA’s Expenditures on Health Care Services per Enrollee, by Priority Group, 2008
P1 $9,000
P2 $3,900
P3 $3,100
P4 $15,000
P5 $5,200
P6 $1,900
P7/8 $2,200
----------------
$5,757 = average cost per year (in 2010 US Dollars).
Average cost for ALL Americans in 2010:
"Combined public and private spending on health care in the U.S. came to $8,233 per person in 2010, more than twice as much as relatively rich European countries such as France, Sweden and Britain that provide universal health care.
…and you made the following additional claim…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
Thanks for proving my point about VA healthcare being cheaper---by about 30% on average.
….and copied my post a 2nd time here….
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
It's a cost per patient that's measured, whether it's out of taxes or out of insurance or out of pocket. What is the average cost PER PATIENT.
The VA is better.
Let's use Mircea's numbers which he provided and I quoted in my post (303, I think)
Your stats, Mircea:
Figure 5 VA’s Expenditures on Health Care Services per Enrollee, by Priority Group, 2008
P1 $9,000
P2 $3,900
P3 $3,100
P4 $15,000
P5 $5,200
P6 $1,900
P7/8 $2,200
----------------
$5,757 = average cost per year (in 2010 US Dollars).
Average cost for ALL Americans in 2010:
"Combined public and private spending on health care in the U.S. came to $8,233 per person in 2010, more than twice as much as relatively rich European countries such as France, Sweden and Britain that provide universal health care.
So if the average cost per person is $5757 for the VA system, and ALL combined public and private spending on U.S. healthcare averages $8,233, if you took the VA system out of the latter numbers, the total spending in the U.S. would be even HIGHER than 8,233 on the average for those left.
…and then I called you out here….
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Let’s look at this……
….and view it in light of these comments you made….
I gave the average cost per year for Health Care Services per Enrollee, as reported by Heidi L. W. Golding before the Senate Committee on Veterans’ Affairs July 27, 2011.
It's not my fault you have no idea what you're talking about.
I'd venture to guess that it never donned on you that just because someone is enrolled in the VA medical system, it does not logically follow that they were treated at the VA medical system during the year.
How did you put it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
I did actuarial work for years, so I'm a numbers guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
If we want to talk about insurance, I do have significant, if old, experience. I served in the insurance field for over 30 years as an underwriter, ratemaker, and compliance officer. I served three years on the Board of Directors of the Association of Insurance Compliance Professionals, two of those as the elected Treasurer of AICP.
And you don’t have any idea what an Enrollee is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
But you have a personal need to "win" so no argument will ever disuade you from pursuing foolishness.
No, I lead by example, and you would do well to follow my example.
Although I have a BA in Economics, do you see me posting on the Investment Forum and giving financial advice? Do you see me posting on the Real Estate Forum?
No, because that would be morally and ethically wrong, since I don’t know anything about investments or real estate --- those aren’t my fields.
My character doesn’t permit me to pass myself off as some of expert or authority and mislead people – my conscious wouldn’t allow me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
You enjoy "tricking" people by providing intially misleading information and then saying you intentionally did not provide complete information so you could set a trap.
But you “served in the insurance field for over 30 years as an underwriter, ratemaker, and compliance officer. I served three years on the Board of Directors of the Association of Insurance Compliance Professionals, two of those as the elected Treasurer of AICP,†right?
You made that claim 8 times on this thread alone.
How could you possibly be “trapped†or "tricked?"
30 years, isn't that what you said?
Elaborate in detail….
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Figure 5 VA’s Expenditures on Health Care Services per Enrollee, by Priority Group, 2008
….what part of that is “misleading?â€
I’m not asking for myself, so much as I’m asking for others on C-D who might be reading this (with some amusement perhaps).
Also…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
…and then saying you intentionally did not provide complete information so you could set a trap.
I never said that. Those are your words, not mine.
Show me where I said those exact words, and then….
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Figure 5 VA’s Expenditures on Health Care Services per Enrollee, by Priority Group, 2008
….which part of that is “incomplete?†You said I did not provide you with complete information, so what information do you believe that I withheld?
You’re the one who repeatedly ad nauseum made this claim…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
If we want to talk about insurance, I do have significant, if old, experience. I served in the insurance field for over 30 years as an underwriter, ratemaker, and compliance officer. I served three years on the Board of Directors of the Association of Insurance Compliance Professionals, two of those as the elected Treasurer of AICP.
…and I give you a simple table from a government document and you completely misinterpreted the data, even though you have "30 years...." I note your spelling leaves a lot to be desired.
Another thing I proved is that you see only what you want to see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
I did actuarial work for years, so I'm a numbers guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
I've been researching health insurance systems online for sometime now and feel I have some degree of knowledge about the inefficiency in ours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
I apologize to all for infractions on copyright material. I'm a good researcher, not a good computer person--as in, how do you make a link!!
And yet you were unable to go to Document GAO-12-908, otherwise known as the VETERANS’ HEALTH CARE BUDGET United States Government Accountability Office Report to Congressional Committees, dated September 2012, and extract the information yourself.
I direct your attention to Page 3 of that document, which states the following….
A variety of activities are funded through VHA’s three appropriations accounts for medical care:
• The Medical Services account includes funds for health care services provided to eligible veterans and beneficiaries in VA’s medical centers, outpatient clinic facilities, contract hospitals, state homes, and outpatient programs on a fee basis. For fiscal year 2012, VA received more than $39.6 billion in the Medical Services account.
• The Medical Support and Compliance account includes funds for the management and administration of the VA health care system, including financial management, human resources, and logistics. For fiscal year 2012, VA received more than $5.5 billion in the Medical Support and Compliance account.
• The Medical Facilities account includes funds for the operation and maintenance of the VA health care system’s capital infrastructure, such as costs associated with nonrecurring maintenance, utilities, facility repair, laundry services, and grounds keeping. For fiscal year 2012, VA received more than $5.4 billion in the Medical Facilities account.
Let’s add that up….
$39,600,000,000
$5,500,000,000
$5,400,000,000
-------------------
$50,500,000,000 spent on health care in 2012.
I now direct your attention to Page 2 of the same report which states….
In fiscal year 2011, approximately 6.2 million patients received health care from VA. In providing that care, VA operates 152 hospitals, 133 nursing homes, 824 community-based outpatient clinics, and other facilities through 21 regional health care networks.
$50.5 Billion spent for 6.2 Million veterans.
Would you like a sedative before I do the math?
$50,500,000,000 / 6,200,000 = $8,145.16 per veteran.
That means this figure…
$8,145.16 per veteran
…is actually too low. With co-payments, reimbursements from Medicare, and private insurance, the actual amount would be 15%-25% higher.
Your response is….
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
And healthcare costs are generally estimated using the cost of all co-pays and premiums, so you cannot provide a figure and then "add in" more for co-pays and premiums.
Sorry, this document….
GAO-12-908, otherwise known as the VETERANS’ HEALTH CARE BUDGET United States Government Accountability Office Report to Congressional Committees, dated September 2012
…only covers government expenditures….it does not include what veterans spend-out-of pocket….because it is a report to Congress on what the government must pay or has paid, and not a report on what veterans pay.
Having "30 years experience" you should know that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
Hmmm, let's see, if I used YOUR reasoning on healthcare expenditures of ALL Americans that have insurance and eliminate the 50 billion who do not, what is the cost per healthcare of "enrollees", just so we can compare with the VA enrollees in your little trap:
It is not MY reasoning, and it was not a trap….just as reminder…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Figure 5 VA’s Expenditures on Health Care Services per Enrollee, by Priority Group, 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
…. and you still find it necessary to play number games without revealing an apples to apples comparison.
You made the following statements…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
The Swiss, too have an insurance system and their insurance costs are less than ours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
From a Time article:
"But after the Supreme Court upheld what is now popularly called ‘Obamacare‘ on June 28, Switzerland’s media greeted the decision as “a victory for common sense.â€
Why should Americans listen to the Swiss? Because Switzerland’s healthcare model successfully delivers much of what the U.S is trying to achieve: universal coverage through mandatory private insurance"
I provided you with the following information and sources….
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Expenditure of selected health care functions by providers of health care, per inhabitant [hlth_sha1h]
Last update 25.10.11 Extracted on 06.01.13 Source of Data Eurostat UNIT Euro per inhabitant ICHA_HC Health care expenditure ICHA_HP All providers of health care
Just so everyone knows, the source of that information is the European Commission of the European Union.
Just an observation…..for someone who keeps repeating this…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
If we want to talk about insurance, I do have significant, if old, experience. I served in the insurance field for over 30 years as an underwriter, ratemaker, and compliance officer. I served three years on the Board of Directors of the Association of Insurance Compliance Professionals, two of those as the elected Treasurer of AICP.
….over and over, it is really strange, odd and bizarre that you are unable to cite any industry sources.
All of what you have presented was anecdotal evidence from City-Data, Yahoo!Mail, periodicals like Time, Forbes, New York Times, Los Angeles Times, and special interest groups that have a vested and slanted interest.
And then after I cited the European Commission of the European Union, you made this remark…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
So, Mircea, you are not well-informed. You are stuck with singularly outmoded sources of information….
Well, if these….
Last update 25.10.11 Extracted on 06.01.13 Source of Data Eurostat UNIT Euro per inhabitant ICHA_HC Health care expenditure ICHA_HP All providers of health care
Romania.......310.39 Switzerland....... 5,215.64
Norway....... 5,343.49
Luxembourg....... 5,438.46 United States....... 5,684.68
UNIT Euro per inhabitant ICHA_HF General government
UNIT Euro per inhabitant ICHA_HF Private household out-of-pocket expenditure
Romania .......63.95 United States....... 697.13
Norway .......805.54 Switzerland....... 1,590.18
…are singularly outmoded sources of information and not apples to apples comparisons and are …remember this…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
…. and you still find it necessary to play number games without revealing an apples to apples comparison.
…then what are they?
By the way, the EuroStat data from the European Commission of the European Union (not Forbes or Time or CNN) can be down-loaded in any format you want: text ASCII, Excel spreadsheet, Adobe Acrobat etc. I encourage everyone to check it out.
I would like you to think about this comment…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
This is like trying to argue with a racist or religious fanatic.
…in the context of these two comments…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
So, Mircea, you are not well-informed. You are stuck with singularly outmoded sources of information….
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
…. and you still find it necessary to play number games without revealing an apples to apples comparison.
A lotta work just to have a clear conscience...lol.
Let's keep this real simple -
I have a very good friend in Canada who has nothing but praise for his country's universal health care system. You need medical care, you get it, without worrying about how to pay for it. Simple enough, no? No insurance companies, no billing, no insane piles of paperwork that have to be filled out every time someone sees a medical professional. Simply put, Canada's health care system does what it's supposed to do - provide medical care. Geeze, what a concept! They don't have debates over "numbers" and "access to care" - they have a system in place, and it WORKS. It enjoys 90% popular support year in and year out, and there's zero chance that their medical system will ever be subjected to the whims of the "free market" - which is anything but free...lol.
We Americans should not rest until we've implemented a system like Canada has - I know I won't.
I finally figured out your ploy with your "healthcare" statistics and went to a couple of the sites you linked. No one of any ordinary amount of intelligence can make any sense of them--and I'm pretty sure you know that --- which is the reason that every single one of your posts are so lengthy and full of B.S. that you are hopeful no one will notice.
You never quote any nationally or internationally published figures, because they don't fit into your narrow-minded view of healthcare.
Did you fail to answer my question about how much stock you have in the healthcare/pharmaceutical industry?
And you are so smart you know what I did with my whole life.
So here is the record for you and any of your dumb headed butties to peruse over.
I had my first jobs as a kid mowing lawns and shoveling snow in Ohio.
Later I became a newspaper deliverer--with a bicycle, not a car.
Upon graduation from HS and wanting to attend college, for which neither I nor my parents had any money, I took a part time job on the janitorial staff of Clark College (now University) in Vancouver, Washington. I was mopping floors and emptying waste cans while other students sat around telling jokes or gathered around the TV in the student lounge to watch DAYTIME baseball. At night I waxed the halls in several buildings.
It still wasn't enough for me to pay my bills, so I took a job as a general laborer at Alcoa Aluminum Company doing everything from moving spools of aluminum wiring with a forklift to packing and banding products we were shipping out. And, of course, cleaning up grease in pounds so that my clothes were completely covered each afternoon or night when I went home---yes, I did shift work and it changed from week to week
Then when my father retired from the Air Force and wanted to move back to the midwest, I decided I couldn't make it on my own, I had a relatively low draft number and Vietnam was just starting to rage. So I volunteered for the Marine Corps, went through basic in San Diego, advanced training at Camp Pendleton, and further training as a locker lugger (supply).
Initially I was going over to Viet Nam but got pulled off the plane in Okinawa because they needed my MOS there. Supply Company, Supply Battalion--I served nearly 13 months on Okie and extended my tour of duty six months to go to Viet Nam, expecting a nice cushie job in Da Nang or somewhere else in the rear. Instead I was placed with 9th Motor Transport Unit in Dong Ha, Vietnam--near the DMZ. 9th motor T was the unit mentioned in Born on the Fourth of July -- the guy that transferred into "Cruise's" outfit, whom he later shot, was from 9th.
9th had been in Nam almost two years and hadn't suffered a single KIA. Two months after I got there we had our first, and as the NCO in charge of supply, it fell to me to pack that guy's seabag and label it to return to his family. And yes, we ran perimeter patrols and I volunteered for everyone that my unit ever sent out, until the very last one before I was leaving--I got cold feet and begged off with our Lieutenant. But where did I go--not back to the States, but back to Okinawa for another six months and I wound up in the same unit, not just company and battalion, but PLATOON, that I had been in before I left to go to Nam. It was there that I started attending the Far East Division of the University of Maryland, just taking a couple of courses.
When I rotated back to the states I was sent to Camp LeJeune where in about two weeks the "Pueblo" incident took place--one of our ships too close to North Korea and was boarded an captured about a week after Johnson's State of the Union address. I thought we were going to get in a shooting war with Korea and decided I would rather be in Nam than Korea. I had been in the COLD part of Nam, near the Cambodian mountains and Korea was far colder.
So after just two week in the states I volunteered to go back to WestPac, which usually meant Viet Nam. I left a week later, had to go through all the "refresher" courses in California, shooting the BAR, saw the M-16 for the first time (I carried an M-14 with an expert badge), fired a bazooka, threw hand grenades. Yes, they make even supply guys do that stuff cause the Marine attitude is--"everyone is infantry first."
Back on Okinawa I was again deplaned and again wound up in the same company, same battalion, AND the same platoon. Now if you want to call me a liar (because you know so much about my life) I have to admit that anyone who has been in the military would tell you that it would be very unusual for someone to end up in the same platoon three times after being transferred all over the world. Even had a major tell me it was the strangest thing he had ever seen in the military.
I went back to Far East Div of U of M and took more courses. At the end of that tour I was getting a four month early out on my four year enlistment, so I went back to Ohio and began looking at schools now that I had the GI bill to help me. In the meantime I got a job with Zales Jewelry store selling watches and rings, laying out the display window in the mornings and picking it up at night.
Found a school in Kentucky that was Baptist related and headed there with all intention of being a ministerial student. Through my first year I worked in the science department cleaning test tubes and setting up classrooms for experiments. Even went out on the lake to take water samples for a study being done at the college. My first summer I went home to where my parents were living in Mobile, Alabama, and after being bored in about two weeks, my father offered to let me attend Mobile College for the summer and he would pay for it--the only education paid for by my parents.
Returning to Campbellsville I got involved in student politics and served as the elected representative from one of the dormitories, spent a short while of the student judicial council, and finally became the first student representative to the faculty meetings. I met my wife of 42 years at college and she has been the one and only for me. She graduated a year prior to me, and we became the dorm "parents" of one of the dormitories.
After college I became a life insurance salesman---meaning I had to take the life and health examination for the state of Kentucky--and did quite well at it, but hated what was basically door to door. I became the sixth leading salesman out of thirty in just sixteen weeks--and I only sold one policy to someone I knew prior to becoming a sales person.
But I wanted the desk job, so I applied for an opening with Travelers Insurance and became a personal lines underwriter--which at the time included medical malpractice for doctors, auto, homeowners, renters, boat, personal articles floaters, and variations of all those named. I had to spend time in every department in the company from claims to engineering to human resources to commercial underwriting--even accounting. A week in most of them, sometimes a little more. And the job required that I act as a sales representative to our agents as well, helping them to sell products if needed. Travelers maintained my life and health license and I became the first person to sell a mass marketing life policy in Kentucky.
From Travelers I went to a midwestern regional carrier and was introduced to light commercial auto underwriting. I got promoted by them and sent to their home office to learn compliance work, including filings with the state for rate increases or to introduce or amend forms. Every state operates differently, so I had to learn about the laws in every state--or at least know where to find the information.
Eventually my alma mater called me and offered me the job of being their vice-president of development, in charge of fund-raising and student recruitment. I went there, but only lasted about a year before the politics of working in a college administration became more than I could bear. I saw that my old insurance company had a sales representative job opening in Kentucky, so I called their sales department and asked if I could have a shot at it. They called me in for an interview and hired me on the spot. Since they knew I had underwriting experience, I was the only sales representative with the ability to accept or reject property in the field--not having to send it through an underwriter if I approved it. And I had begun writing and inspecting both farmowners and light commercial buildings as well. In addition, still maintaining a life and health license, my company introduced a group and health insurance policy to be sold to small businesses, under 25 people. Since by far most of our independent agents knew little about life and health products, I was frequently called upon to help them either learn or present the product. In a very short time, my agents had the best record for sales of a product that was doomed to failure from the outset.
Finally I got a call from an old friend who had worked with me in the midwestern insurance group. He was with a small P&C division of a larger life insurance operation and was looking for an underwriting manager and thought I could fill the bill. So I went to work at a still smaller company as underwriting manager. Three years later, there was an opening in the Product Development department (read statistical reporting and state filings) and I was asked to take it over. We were paying outside actuaries ten thousand dollars a pop for each state, each product to calculate rate changes for us. They sent us such nice formulas, and I had discovered Lotus 123 on a PCJR with 384K ram, so I thought I could plug their formulas in and come up with the same answers. It took me quite some time as I only had algebra in college and actuarial science is applied calculus. But eventually I got it. My company owned no PCs then, only a mainframe, so my boss agreed to let me try and do a rate filing on my JR. Sometimes it took five or more minutes to recalc a formula. And that's how my ratemaking career began.
I later worked for a non-standard carrier in Colorado making both rates and filing them, and finally with a start up commercial liability operation here in Dallas which was part of a large credit card company--now bought out. I was hired because of a three pronged ability to sell, develop rates, and file forms and rates with the states. It was here that I became introduced to the Association of Insurance Compliance Professionals which is made up of compliance professionals of both P&C and Life/Health insurers. I had only gone to a few of the monthly meetings when I was asked to serve as the regional president. This I did for a year. At the end of that time, the opportunity arose to serve on the National Board of Directors and my region (TX, LA, AK as I recall) elected me to the position. I was elected again the following year and this time ran for national treasurer of the organization, which I won. Then served another year in the same position, quite unusual at the time.
The corporation that owned us was bought out by an even larger credit card operation and I knew my days were numbered, so I found a job in Chicago working for AON Corporation in their warranty department. When they moved from downtown Chicago I did contract work for an old AICP friend who needed some help in the workers compensation market that her company was into strongly.
But my love of insurance had grown cold. For the last ten years of my career I was being pressured more and more to say it was "okay" to do things that were clearly illegal in at least some states. I knew they just wanted a head to lop off if they got caught. So I went from making right at 100k in my last full year of the business to taking a job paying $11.00 an hour to start---as a medical records clerk in one of the hospitals where my wife had worked previously. I worked six years for them, and saw that they were violating an agreement with the Federal Government concerning their record-keeping which they had agreed to after being fined HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars. So agreements meant nothing to hospitals any more than the law meant nothing to insurance companies (oh, and my AICP contacts with life and health insurers assured me they were under the same pressure to say things were "okay" in their field).
I then worked for two years as an administrative assistant to the president of a small homeowners management company.
Now, there is my entire life work record for anyone to review. And to everyone else, Mr Mircea has the unmitigated gall to say I don't know what I'm talking about.
Here is what healthcare industry is about today---money for the rich (you?), money for the powerful (you?) and you are in my opinion the Joseph Goebbels of the health industry on this thread.
So Joseph, go ahead with more of your spin. You know not only about the health industry, you know all about my life--at least now you should. I"m not ashamed of it, but a man with five degrees (I was working while you got those degrees) who is unable to see what healthcare as we have it is doing to the country is either dumber than a box of rocks--and I dont think you are---or you have something to hide from all of us about your vested interest in the health industry.
National health care may not be a panacea, but it would be a damn sight better than what people are suffering with right now.
So? I have a very good friend in Romania who will tell you that Ceausescu was Christ-on-Earth. Anecdotal evidence does not rise to the standard for debate.
If you would be wrongfully arrested for murder, you would have no problem being convicted and executed based on anecdotal evidence, right? If you would be fired by your employer and denied unemployment benefits based on anecdotal evidence, you'd have no problem with that either, right?
Because if you do, you know, have a problem with that, then your position is both contradictory and hypocritical.
Now, can you provide any substantive fact-based evidence from a primary source to prove that any form of universal health care in the US would significantly reduce costs or not?
If you just want to wax poetic and fawn over UHC, you can do that on the P&OC Forum.
So? I have a very good friend in Romania who will tell you that Ceausescu was Christ-on-Earth. Anecdotal evidence does not rise to the standard for debate.
If you would be wrongfully arrested for murder, you would have no problem being convicted and executed based on anecdotal evidence, right? If you would be fired by your employer and denied unemployment benefits based on anecdotal evidence, you'd have no problem with that either, right?
Because if you do, you know, have a problem with that, then your position is both contradictory and hypocritical.
Now, can you provide any substantive fact-based evidence from a primary source to prove that any form of universal health care in the US would significantly reduce costs or not?
If you just want to wax poetic and fawn over UHC, you can do that on the P&OC Forum.
Not impressed...
Mircea
Not impressed, indeed...lol. Not that I come on this forum to impress people...lol.
It's clear that per capita health care costs in Canada are less than that of the US - and most importantly, everyone in Canada has equal access to medical care, regardless of ability to pay. Sure, there's a finite amount of health care available - no system in the world will ever be able to overcome that, but at least in Canada, health care is distributed in a fair and equitable manner, which is what we here in the US should strive for. The issue of cost has to be decided by how much the populace is willing to pay - want gold-plated health care for everyone, then we'll have to pay for it somehow, if we wanna go cheap, then we'll have to settle for less health care - we'll save that debate for the political forum...lol.
I agree, my friend is just one person out of 39 million, but what about the 35 million other Canadians that will say the same thing about their health care system? Any system that enjoys 90% popular support has got to be a phenomenal one - how anyone can argue against that is beyond me.
'Nuff said...
Last edited by NorthStarDelight; 01-20-2013 at 09:17 AM..
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Losing Your Fear About Universal Healthcare
They don't have debates over "numbers" and "access to care" - they have a system in place, and it WORKS. It enjoys 90% popular support year in and year out, and there's zero chance that their medical system will ever be subjected to the whims of the "free market" - which is anything but free...lol.
