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It's more than a bit humorous that the folks who are whining about how gun control folks don't understand guns, so they should cease in discussing them, are the same ones weighing in on mental illness and some fantasy connection to homicidal behavior and haven't a clue what they're talking about. Not a clue.
Are you sure it's us who haven't a clue? Sometimes the truth hurts but to pretend the mental health-violence link doesn't exist only serves to delay in our finding a real solution to mass shootings. See below. vv
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
Mentally ill and violent Acts
Though for United States, there is no data available to look into rate of mental disorders in homicide offenders, but a study in Sweden did the psychiatric evaluation of the homicide offenders and found that 54% had diagnosis of personality disorders, 47% had substance use disorders, and 25% had schizophrenia, bipolar, or other type of psychosis.17 Another study in Sweden examined the crime registers and hospital records between periods 1988-2000 and calculated the number of violent crimes per 1000 persons, which would not have occurred if the risk factor of mental illness had been absent. The results from the study found the attributable risk for violent acts with mental illness to be around 5.2%.18 In other words it meant that if mentally ill people no longer exist in community, the violent crimes would be less by 5.2%. Swanson and others also did a study using self report data from the Epidemiological Catchment area (ECA) survey to assess the violence rate in people with and without mental illness. They found out that major mental disorders correlated with atleast five fold increase in rates of violence over a 1 year period, compared with rates among individuals with no disorder, and ten fold increase in violence was found in people with substance abuse disorders.19
DSM IV has diagnosis like conduct disorder and antisocial personality disorder (APD) which have direct association with crime and violence. They are in a way paradigm of aggressiveness, with violent acts being part of their diagnostic criteria.20 Prevalence rate for APD are 3% for males and less than 1% for females21-22 but they comprise around 20% of the prison population23 and between 33%-80% of the population of chronic criminal offenders24-25. And these individuals are thought to account for over 50% of all the crimes in US26-27. Conduct disorder increases the likelihood of developing APD in adult life and criminal population overlap with APD in more than one way.21-27
There is a strong correlation between violent crime and mentall illness. But due to the sensitivity issues we have in this country, we refuse to even consider addressing it. Instead of doing so, we continue to ignore the problem and pretend that, instead, restricting the rights of sane and law abiding gun owners will somehow address the issue.
My brother has been a heavy substance abuser for many years. ANY substance he could get his hands on.
Prior to becoming an addict, he seemed normal. He graduated from college with a degree in History, got married, started working, the whole nine yards.
Somewhere along the way, he snapped. Since he lived several hours away from the family, and since his wife was not open with us at all, we did not know the full extent of his addictions, or his mental issues. We DID know, however, that he was disrespectful, rude, inflammatory, and bitter toward his family and toward employers. He lost several jobs along the way.
We became increasingly concerned about him and met with his wife about possible treatment options - but in the end she wouldn't cooperate and legally there was nothing we could do about getting him treatment.
He has been diagnosed with a Cluster B personality disorder (sociopath) as well as schizophrenia. His medical team believes that his schizophrenia is self induced - via his substance abuse.
Now he is so dangerous that even the professionals at the facility he is in are afraid to be left alone with him.
By the way - he does not have a brain tumor. He has a fried brain. Big difference.
The last time I met with him (last week) he kept telling me and my mother that he was seeing AK 47s floating around on the glass partition that separated him from us.
Errrrrr...you can take him home with you if you like and be all sweet and comforting and loving with him. That would be against the advice of professionals, however.
No one is talking about KILLING him because he's a nuisance or a brute beast by the way. All we're talking about is the most EXTREME measure in the most EXTREME circumstance. If all else fails in other words, we have the right to protect ourselves and our families.
I suppose he could join the military. They could use his "dangerousness" in some foreign country.
Otherwise, if he's living in your area, and you, the health professionals and the police all agree that he's "out of control," then you might consider changing countries quick, because if they're not doing anything to help him, wouldn't it be better to move to a place where they WILL help him? I can't understand why health professionals don't help people, and then say "what went wrong??" when something finally happens. Pure stupidity.
Lastly, a CAT scan might be useful. If they find something organic, you will probably receive better assistance (finally).
I suppose he could join the military. They could use his "dangerousness" in some foreign country.
Otherwise, if he's living in your area, and you, the health professionals and the police all agree that he's "out of control," then you might consider changing countries quick, because if they're not doing anything to help him, wouldn't it be better to move to a place where they WILL help him? I can't understand why health professionals don't help people, and then say "what went wrong??" when something finally happens. Pure stupidity.
Lastly, a CAT scan might be useful. If they find something organic, you will probably receive better assistance (finally).
Peace.
brian
Sigh.
Are you honestly trying to be helpful?
My brother is 41 years old. We can't control where he lives. We can't let him live with us.
We can't just "move to another country." Have you ever looked into that option seriously?
Finally - he's had a full and complete physical evaluation - several in fact. He has brain damage. It is irreparable and irreversible.
The whole POINT of this thread is that our mental healthcare system is BROKEN.
It is not only the mental aspect of gun violence and deaths. What about judges who let criminals out early for good behavior. Never looking into the mental aspect of the person.
That is what happened to my realitive who head was blown off at point blank range. Sorry to be graphic, but judge let the ass-hole out early for good behavior. He was not even out 24 hours, when he killed my realitive, she never knew what hit her, She was getting up to go to the bathroom during the night.
Oh but he was not done just yet, had to take her apart limb by limb and her insides out.
If you think i have never forgotten for one minute about that death, your mistaken, i think about it constantly, where at one point it consumed who i was, and that was wrong.
There is the mental aspect of it, judges who let these guys out early, way before their time, or are too damn soft on them. And yes i think something should be done, but what!
the scum who killed another realitive of mine different location different State stated, criminals will always get their hands on guns, and yes i believe him. He also said if necessary, they will use bare hands, something about giving them a gosh damn rush.
I don't have the answers, anymore, i beleive the scum who killed my cousin.
Brain damage is an important key. No one with serious brain damage ought to be left to their own devices, without testing. Imo.
I agree with you that the health care system is broken. The correctional system is also broken, and probably never actually worked.
In light of this, it would be good to consider what YOU can do to help your brother, if health professionals are incapable.
Peace.
brian
Sorry, I'm not qualified to help him. Besides that, he has threatened me with violence repeatedly. In fact, I've had to call the police to have him removed from my home, where he forced his way into my house, waving a gun and yelling at me at 1 am. I am literally afraid of him - and should be, according to both his doctors and law enforcement.
Same goes for my parents.
He cannot live with us, and we cannot force him to take daily medications. It's a bad situation.
Of the 30,000 gun deaths last year, 18,000 were suicides which by itself indicates a mental instability .
Gun advocates want you to think the 160 self protection deaths are the reason we need to all be packing but the reality just shows otherwise.
We also have a different approach in our media and it seems so much of our violence stems from the violence being covered on the news and glorified, if you will. We then make movies and TV shows about these events providing further push for that event.
Do guns cause it... no but if you didn't have easy availability it would also prevent many of them.... many are probably those mentally unstable the OP is speaking of. When you look at the gun ban in Australia you see the suicides by guns fell dramatically as did suicides as a whole. So it is not a valid arguement to say no guns would not prevent deaths, it in fact would, but as always, where there is a will, there is a way.
Like the advent of seat belts and airbags, car fatalities have fallen dramatically, not eliminated but many people have their family members alive as a result of the change. So it comes to value, do you value the 160 people you possibly saved vs the 29840 you lost? Would a look into mental issues prevent fatalities? maybe? can we take several approaches sure, but it may require the valuation of life vs an unrestricted right to guns.
The elephant in the room nobody, least of all the mainstream media, want to acknowledge or add it to the public discussion, least it detract from their popular "America's love affair with violence & guns/ban guns" narrative-
For those of us who came of age in the 1970s, one of the most shocking aspects of the last three decades was the rise of mass public shootings: people who went into public places and murdered complete strangers. Such crimes had taken place before but their rarity meant that they were shocking.
Something changed in the 1980s: these senseless mass murders started to happen with increasing frequency. Why did these crimes go from extraordinarily rare to commonplace?
For a while, it was fashionable to blame gun availability for this dramatic increase. But guns did not become more available before or during this change. Instead, federal law and many state laws became more restrictive on purchase and possession of firearms, sometimes in response to such crimes. If gun availability does not explain the increase of mass public murders, what else might?
At least half of these mass murderers (as well as many other murderers) have histories of mental illness.
In the 1960s, the United States embarked on an innovative approach to caring for its mentally ill: deinstitutionalization. The intentions were quite humane: move patients from long-term commitment in state mental hospitals into community-based mental health treatment.
So why is europe so different, is their mental healthcare that much better than the US. I wouldn't place this entirely on mental health policy and it seems like the largest increase in mass murders has been the last 10 years.
Sorry, I'm not qualified to help him. Besides that, he has threatened me with violence repeatedly. In fact, I've had to call the police to have him removed from my home, where he forced his way into my house, waving a gun and yelling at me at 1 am. I am literally afraid of him - and should be, according to both his doctors and law enforcement.
Same goes for my parents.
He cannot live with us, and we cannot force him to take daily medications. It's a bad situation.
You are dealing with a tsunami that is still 4 miles off shore but closing fast and are quite right to be prepared.
My background. Father given compassionate leave from the Europe theater in early 45 after being over there from 1940 During WWII when his wife attempted suicide back home in Canada. I was born 1946 and was subject to her undiagnosed schizophrenia and manic depression stuff all of my formative years.
Her sudden violent temper swings would have her beating my older brother and myself senseless until my mother's side of the family finally saw the results of her beatings and my father was then able to institutionalize her for treatment. Those were the horrendous years of shock therapy that would see her returned to us as a walking zombie for weeks before some semblance of normalcy would return. Then the cycle would commence again.
Upshot was we grew up making sure she took her daily doses of Largactyl to keep her stable but for years my brother and myself had what we called "fire drills" where when she got that look and started raving we'd run to our respective bedrooms, lock the doors and dive out the windows to meet on the front lawn with our baseball bats in hand.
My brother and I would have bled rock salt to have had tazers available back in the 50's and early 60's but it is probably a good thing we didn't.
Never had to hit her with those bats but we sure as hell would have, had she gotten to one of us inside the house or out on lawn.
Later adulthood entrities to our father to divorce this nightmare were regularly answered with "I married your mother for better or worse". They don't make men like that anymore.
Here's a tip from someone who knows the depth of the problem you're dealing with. Take whatever steps you deem appropriate to protect yourself and loved ones without guilt or remorse. You've already dealt with all of the "what if's" in regards to availing him of treatment and must now treat him as the sleeping gorilla in the room.
If it takes a weapon to prevent his seriously hurting you or others; SO BE IT!
There is no such thing as a crazy person or mental illness they are all deceptive creations of the Association of Psychiatric Medicine. Watch the Videos below and inform yourself to the truth behind mental illness and gun violence.
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