Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No. Either you believe He is your Savior or you don't. Repeating a prayer after someone, or doing the altar call or simply saying you believe, does not mean that you actually do. If you truly believe it, then God caused you to believe, and it was not a choise. You can choose to seek God, which is an action, and He will respond, and it will lead to you believing. And God can draw people to Him, and open their hearts, but that it not same as choosing to believe.
No, you choose to believe something because it makes you feel good in some way. You choose to not question those 'beliefs' by ignoring any evidence to the contrary.
Speaking of my LACK of intolerance for differing beliefs, I was just thinking of a regular library patron of mine... he comes in about once a week, and asks me to look up (and print) various gospel songs & Psalms. I think he has trouble reading and isn't familiar with computers, which is why he needs my assistance in finding these things. Not only do I help him with a smile, I actually really like the guy - and would NEVER even THINK of lecturing him just because my beliefs are different. If people can do that for Christians, why can't they (some of them) leave homosexuals alone? You have every right to disagree with what people believe, or how they live their lives, but nobody deserves to be publicly chided over it. Nobody.
My atheist mother named Faith was a public librarian here in Denver for over 30 years. A lot of patrons made assumptions about her and shared their faith with her or specifically chose her to help with their religious information hunts or religious purposes for using the library. She didn't like wearing her name tag. Several times she had to put up with anti-gay religious rants.
Nope. There is nothing more offensive than somebody putting your BELIEFS into "quotes" - do you not understand the implications behind that? It would be like if you said you're a scientist, and I replied "as a "scientist" you should know this and that." Doesn't that imply that I'm doubting your honesty or integrity? This is a simple issue of syntax, and your refusal to apologize says to me it was intentional. I'm actually not an easily offended person (can't stand PC-type nonsense, and some of my favorite shows & comedians are incredibly offensive to many), but that was a deliberate attack on my faith which I will not accept. Of course you do have the right to question me, and at the same time, I have the right to say that was incredibly rude.
It seems people have to walk on egg-shells around you because any mention of L/G issues of Jews will set you off.
I use quotes around the word "religion" all the time, and contrary to what you think, it has nothing to do with Jews. See, it is the "religion", and the "religious elite" which Jesus rebelled against, and he wanted to replace "religion" with saving "faith". You don't have to be religious in order to be saved.
Religion / religious elite = bad (potentially, and very bad at the time of Jesus)
Faith = good.
Unfortunately after he died, Christianity was also hijacked by the religious elite, the Roman Catholic church, which was worse that the Jewish religious elite. Now, should I be offended if someone pointed out that thousands of innocent people were killed by the Catholic "religious" elite. Why should I?
And you shouldn't be offended either when someone mentions the word Jew, and the fact that they were involved in killing Jesus.
Quote:
Yes you are, as proven by your continuous attempt to play the victim here... you can't even handle us saying his approach was wrong, without accusing us of "hating Christianity." If that's not being offended, I don't know what is.
Well, then you don't know what is. I a simply defending my brother in Christ, because he is not here to defend himself from the smear-attacks. It does not mean I am offended.
Quote:
I don't want to get into a religious debate, but let's just say you were awfully quick to blame my feelings on being a Jew
Not true.
Quote:
and then jumped right into saying we obviously hate Christians, since we "killed Christ."
That's a lie. Show me where I said Jews hate Christians for any reason.
Drop the lies!!!
Quote:
So if you can't even acknowledge my points or questions without blaming it on my faith, I would say you have a problem with Jewish people in general.
You keep making up these lies. What's up with that?
Quote:
Oh, so telling people they're going to Hell (or however he worded it) isn't a bad thing?
Why would it be? Is it a bad thing if you tell someone they will one day die? You you be as offended by that? To this guy hell is as real as the end of our life on this earth. The difference is that you can't do anything about dying, but you can avoid hell, and that's what the guy was trying to help the lesbians with.
Can you choose to believe the opposite now that you have seen the evidence? No. You didn't choose to believel, the evidence caused you to believe. There is always something that causes you to believe.
So you choose to ignore any evidence that shows your beliefs are false or flawed.
You've done it here in this thread - by choosing to ignore the quote from St Augustine that shows that the women Paul was referring to in Romans 1 were heterosexual women having anal sex with men. You also choose to ignore the obvious context of idolatrous worhsipping practices of pagan gods.
That's because you WANT to believe that lesbians are condemned in the Bible when they aren't.
Hell is experienced every day by every single member of the LGBT community who is subjected to a finger shaking lecture by the people who have decided something is wrong with them. For being what God made them.
Then it's the new information that leads you to believe something, not your choise. You cannot choose to believe something you think is not true.
You were given new information about Romans 1 in this thread that shows it had nothing to do with lesbians. Think about why you choose to ignore it.
St Augustine (354–430 C.E.)
"But if one has relations even with one’s wife in a part of the body which was not made for begetting children, such relations are against nature and indecent. In fact, the same apostle earlier said the same thing about the women, For their women exchanged natural relations for those which are against nature (Rom 1:26).
Augustine, Marriage and Desire 20.35 (trans. Roland Teske; ed. John E Rotelle; Answer to the Pelagians, II; New York: New City Press, 1990), 75-76.
It seems people have to walk on egg-shells around you because any mention of L/G issues of Jews will set you off.
LOL. Hardly!! The fact that you would even say that shows you don't know me at all... which is to be expected, since we're virtual strangers, but I'm actually laughing at the suggestion. Again, I am probably the exact opposite of "PC," and make more jokes about Jews & gays than most bigots. The difference is that I do it in jest, not in hate. I know the difference, do you?
Quote:
I use quotes around the word "religion" all the time, and contrary to what you think, it has nothing to do with Jews. See, it is the "religion", and the "religious elite" which Jesus rebelled against, and he wanted to replace "religion" with saving "faith". You don't have to be religious in order to be saved.
Religion / religious elite = bad (potentially, and very bad at the time of Jesus)
Faith = good.
Well, then I'll just call you a gratuitous quoter - but I notice you don't do that when speaking of "Christians."
Quote:
Well, then you don't know what is. I a simply defending my brother in Christ, because he is not here to defend himself from the smear-attacks. It does not mean I am offended.
The mere fact that you keep saying he's being "attacked" and "persecuted" shows how offended you are... since very few people here are attacking him, we're just pointing out the rudeness of his approach. And why aren't you defending the women against HIS actions against THEM? You are biased when it comes to your defense of personal rights, apparently.
Quote:
Not true.
That's a lie. Show me where I said Jews hate Christians for any reason.
Drop the lies!!!
You keep making up these lies. What's up with that?
Says the man who claimed I put "religious" in quotes, and couldn't come up with proof of it. Pot, meet kettle!!
Here is where I got that from, along with a few other of your quotes - which I don't have the energy to sift through, since we're talking about 700+ posts on the thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
People, yes "religious" people like you, were offended by the teachings of Jesus Christ to a point where they murdered Him. Don't ask me, ask the devil, it's him doing it to you, not me.
Soooooo, saying we're offended by the teachings of Jesus Christ, and supposedly murdered him for it doesn't = hating Christianity? Okay, if you say so.
Edit: Furthermore, saying we're under control of the devil isn't hateful & anti-Semitic? You really are full of it, sorry.
Quote:
Why would it be? Is it a bad thing if you tell someone they will one day die? You you be as offended by that? To this guy hell is as real as the end of our life on this earth. The difference is that you can't do anything about dying, but you can avoid hell, and that's what the guy was trying to help the lesbians with.
Why would Hell be bad? Wow, just wow. You are REALLY stretching to justify your bigotry, aren't you? Whether you think his intentions were good or not, he accused them of CURRENTLY being headed to Hell and hurting people around them - when all they were doing was eating a meal, and maybe possibly holding hands or "gazing at each other." If you can explain how his CURRENT judgment of them was positive, by all means do so. Not that I care anymore, since I am officially done with this argument... so lame.
It's impossible. I cannot force myself to believe Zeus exists, or Ra Sun god exists, or that the muslim god is real. I can't do it. If you say you can force yourself to believe such things, then so be it, but I cannot do it.
Yet there is no more evidence that your particular god exists than there is evidence that any of those other gods exist.
You chose to "believe" because you needed something from believing. eg: Fellowship with other like minded people, fear of death and need to believe in something after death, a need to feel 'loved' by some paternal figure, a need to feel good about yourself, a need to feel 'better' or more 'special' than others, an excuse to judge others different from you. Whatever.
Beliefs like religious beliefs are all about a person's own needs. If religious beliefs satisfy a deep need, then that person is likely to defend them to the point of totally ignoring anything that shows the beliefs to be false or flawed.
People believe in all sorts of irrational things despite evidence that the beliefs are false or flawed.
Hell is experienced every day by every single member of the LGBT community who is subjected to a finger shaking lecture by the people who have decided something is wrong with them. For being what God made them.
You can pretend that 2+2=11, but that is not same as believing it.
I guess it doesn't have much to do with the topic anyway, so this my final post on this issue.
Back On topic:
You can pretend the Bible condemns lesbians, but it doesn't even mention them.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
