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This! It's not a hard concept, and this is what any mature individual would do. But unfortunately, too many people in this country that have this sense of ENTITLEMENT and feel the need to use government force to control others, because they don't like that person's life choices. When in fact, they could simply take steps to remove themselves from the situation! But no. That would make too much sense, I guess.
It is NOT incumbent on the potential victims of asault to absent themselves from the scene, it is incumbent on the asaulter not to assault.
It is notte the responsibility of society to stop drinking water, it is the responsbility of the polluter to stop polluting the water.
It is not the obligaton of the rest of the drivers to avoid driving, but, rather, the responsibility of the incompetent driver to not drive, and hence not create accidients.
Can any of this "sink in" or is there too much Nicotine in the blook to make the absorption of wisdim possible. I suspect strongly the latter.
Looks like you're the one getting schooled. But carry on.
Old Bean is like Chum. A term of endearmenb, so to speak.
I figured that.
You are partially correct in your statemetnt about government control. Goverment control of abberantt, harmful (to society) behavious enhances freedom from everyone else. For example, banning drunk driving etc., True, it inhibits the freedom of the drunk driver, but enhances the freedom/safety of the normal people.
Those who ask would sacrifice liberty for more security deserve neither. Not to deviate, but I find checkpoints totally un-Constitutional! It reeks of "show me your papers!"
Same thing with laws controlling other abberant, anti-social behavous, such as smoking in such a way to inflict tobacco-excrement on others. Got it.
Except, smoking is still for the most part accepted despite the fact that more people don't smoke, than who do smoke. An example of anti-social behavior is the guy that goes into a movie theatre and blows 20 people away. It is generally those who intend to commit physical harm on the general populace.
YOu have demonstrated a complete and total LACK of understanding. You use platitudes and boilerplate randomly in improperly. You must ape what others say in other environments, and think it is wit or intelligent debate.
It is NOT.
No. He laid it out quite perfectly. His logic was spot on.
Tell me oh wise one, what would your reaction be if I moved into the apartment next door and played loud music night and day, whether I was present or not, that made normal living in your unit impossible, gave you headaches and kept you from sleeping.
I don't know what he would do, but me being me, I make friends with the neighbors. It goes along the lines of attracting more flies with honey than with vinegar. When you're friendly, and politely express your concern, things tend to go smoother, and more times than not the neighbor will comply. Now, if I went over there throwing a hissy fit, and making demands, then I would more than likely expect a fight, no wouldn't I?
Would you just say "oh well, his right to play music is more important that my right not to have it inflicted on me such that normal life is impossible"?
It depends. If I extend the olive branch of peace, and he responds in kind it's much more reasonable to think that things will work out. But throwing a hissy fit will more times than not result in a confrontation. Not to mention, it will breed discontent with that neighbor who may find any excuse to rat you out for something.
I dare say you would probably screem bloody murder and demand that he not interfere with your rights, and you would be correct. However, you just can't see that you do sthe same exact sort of other people, but pompously, and I do mean POMPOUSLY assert som high and imighty right to do so. That attitude, expressed bsmokers everywhere is why the laws are being passed and enforced.
The problem is, is now you're dictating what people can do in their own homes, and on their private property. That ISN'T OK!
Simply put, you don't have a right to pollute the breathing air, any more than I have a right to defecate in the complex swimming pool or hot tub repeatedly as a matter of daily ongoing routine.
So let's say you and I are walking down the street approaching each other on a sidewalk. It doesn't have to be me, but any smoker. You're about to cross that smoker's path. Are you honestly going to get in his face when he is MINDING HIS OWN BUSINESS, and DEMAND that he stop? Or, let's use a restaurant as an example. The smoker is standing outside at a reasonable distance from the enterance, and you walk by. Are you going to expect them to put out their cigarettes, and lay down for you, when they're already abiding by the restrictions placed on them in the first place? It sounds like you would! And if that is the case, you certainly DO NOT deserve the respect that you are demanding from smokers! You've already, by force have forced privately owned businesses to comply with more regulation, in turn p***ing off more than likely a sizeable amount of his/her customer base. When a simple sign is all that is needed saying that this establishment allows smoking, and to enter at your risk. At which point, that is your choice whether or not you choose to patronize the establishment. It sounds like in your world that you should have choices, and the rights to make them, but others aren't afforded the same right.
Your post, if you call it that, is mindless gibberish not worthy of any more response than that.
Really now? Why don't you offer up a logical rebuttal void of your typical, emotional knee jerk responses, and get back to us...MMMKAYYY!!! Nothing Crem said is wrong!
You are partially correct in your statemetnt about government control. Goverment control of abberantt, harmful (to society) behavious enhances freedom from everyone else. For example, banning drunk driving etc., True, it inhibits the freedom of the drunk driver, but enhances the freedom/safety of the normal people.
But we are not talking about drunk diving, are we? Telling people what they can eat, drink, smoke or grow only enhances the lives of control freaks and government bureaucrats.
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Same thing with laws controlling other abberant, anti-social behavous, such as smoking in such a way to inflict tobacco-excrement on others. Got it.
No. If you don't like smoke, don't go near people who smoke. It really is that simple. Go it?
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YOu have demonstrated a complete and total LACK of understanding. You use platitudes and boilerplate randomly in improperly. You must ape what others say in other environments, and think it is wit or intelligent debate.
It is NOT.
You have demonstrated a complete and total LACK of understanding. You use platitudes and boilerplate randomly in improperly. When the post is childish mocking is called for. When you stop your childish posts, I'll stop mocking.
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Tell me oh wise one, what would your reaction be if I moved into the apartment next door and played loud music night and day, whether I was present or not, that made normal living in your unit impossible, gave you headaches and kept you from sleeping.
Would you just say "oh well, his right to play music is more important that my right not to have it inflicted on me such that normal life is impossible"?
No, because I'm smarter than you. I check out places to live. I would ask the landlord what restrictions are in place. So that would never happen to me.
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I dare say you would probably screem bloody murder and demand that he not interfere with your rights, and you would be correct. However, you just can't see that you do sthe same exact sort of other people, but pompously, and I do mean POMPOUSLY assert som high and imighty right to do so. That attitude, expressed bsmokers everywhere is why the laws are being passed and enforced.
Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm smarter than that. Only a fool would rent an apartment without checking it out. Did that happen to you?
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Simply put, you don't have a right to pollute the breathing air, any more than I have a right to defecate in the complex swimming pool or hot tub repeatedly as a matter of daily ongoing routine.
You can defecate in your own pool any time. It wouldn't bother me at all. And if a complex swimming pool allows you to defecate in it, that's OK too. I wouldn't live there, but some people might.
See how simple this concept is? It's called responsibility and we don't need government to tell us how to live. I'm not so stupid as to live where people do things I don't like whether that's smoking, defecating in the pool, loud music or crying babies. I don't need the GOVERNMENT to tell me what is good for me. I'm an adult.
It is NOT incumbent on the potential victims of asault to absent themselves from the scene, it is incumbent on the asaulter not to assault.
It is notte the responsibility of society to stop drinking water, it is the responsbility of the polluter to stop polluting the water.
It is not the obligaton of the rest of the drivers to avoid driving, but, rather, the responsibility of the incompetent driver to not drive, and hence not create accidients.
Can any of this "sink in" or is there too much Nicotine in the blook to make the absorption of wisdim possible. I suspect strongly the latter.
Nope. It isn't sinking in. Because you whether you like it or not you DO NOT get to tell people what they can and cannot do in their homes or on their private property! You also do not have the right to tell a smoker who is already following the rules that they have to bow down to you and to put out their cigarette, when you cross their path!
Furthermore, I consider assault to be things such as someone throwing a punch at me, pushing me, spitting on me, or maybe even some forms of verbal confrontations. I would consider someone smoking a cigarette along the lines of if someone farts in an elevator, or someone who wears too much cologne, or a loud exhaust... and that is nothing more than minor annoyances! If you think someone smoking a cigarette is assaulting you, then you have way more serious issues. Anger comes to mind.
Finally, if someone like you were to get in my face (the way you're coming at people on here) in public when I'm following the proper protocol, or on my private property, I GOD DAMNED GUARANTEE you will get a reaction from me! And I can tell you, it more than likely will NOT be to your liking!
even though you make a whole lot of sense, nothing you say, will sink in, she is not listening, she doesn't care, she's right and that is all that matters...period. So, unfortunetly your words fall on deaf ears....
she takes her subject to a whole other end of the spectrum, be it logical or illogical, to prove her point...
Exaggerating Grossly, the cause and effects, which is typical
no matter what you say, tipping the scales on logic, she will always come back with a rebuttal...she has to have the last say....it's all about winning....she really doesn't care if your right or wrong...or inbetween, and besides, she is so black and white, she can't perceive anything else.
So let's say you and I are walking down the street approaching each other on a sidewalk. It doesn't have to be me, but any smoker. You're about to cross that smoker's path. Are you honestly going to get in his face when he is MINDING HIS OWN BUSINESS, and DEMAND that he stop? Or, let's use a restaurant as an example. The smoker is standing outside at a reasonable distance from the enterance, and you walk by. Are you going to expect them to put out their cigarettes, and lay down for you, when they're already abiding by the restrictions placed on them in the first place? It sounds like you would! And if that is the case, you certainly DO NOT deserve the respect that you are demanding from smokers! You've already, by force have forced privately owned businesses to comply with more regulation, in turn p***ing off more than likely a sizeable amount of his/her customer base. When a simple sign is all that is needed saying that this establishment allows smoking, and to enter at your risk. At which point, that is your choice whether or not you choose to patronize the establishment. It sounds like in your world that you should have choices, and the rights to make them, but others aren't afforded the same right.
You simpy don't get it, probably willfully. Smokers NEVER jsut mind their own business. Rather, they spew their "business" into the air ofthers are breathing. Read that sentece slowly 6 times or so, until you finally "get it".
Is the guy shotting a gun in the air on New Years just "minding his own business"?
You'll never get it. Smokers think the operate in a vacum where nobody else is, or, perchance, think this effluent isn't the vile,l foul effluent everyone else knows it is. To you, it is wonderful. It stops your shakiing and calms your nerves. To everyone else it is discomfort to the point of pain. Don't you understand that?? Or do you just not care about others.
You deflected on my question about the noice from the unit next door.
Answer it directly, if you can.
I'll give you a big hint. YOu shouldn't have to beg or ask nicely not to have your rights proactively violated.
Smokers have to understand that in a conflict between their recreatonal drug use, and other people right not to be assaulted by toxic pollution, the right not to be assaulted is the clear "winner", and the law is realizing that smokers wouldn't respect others proactively, so laws are being crafted iand implemeted to protect the innocent (that would NOT be the smoker).
Now, if smokers would avail themselves of the already-existing option to get their drug fix in such a way as to NOT pollute the aire others have not only a right, but an absolute need to breathe, the issue would vanish, but sadly, the addict class refuses, by and large mandating the need for more and more protective legilsation to keep the effluent/polution (and that is what smokers produce), i.e. airborne sewerage, from asaulting others.
You bring it on yourself by abjectly refusing the proactively respect others. Your contemptuous, inflexible disregards for others is your stock in trade and your worste enemy.
Your right to stink up, poison-up the place, ends at the boundries of your place, but you refuse to accept that.
Nope. It isn't sinking in. Because you whether you like it or not you DO NOT get to tell people what they can and cannot do in their homes or on their private property! You also do not have the right to tell a smoker who is already following the rules that they have to bow down to you and to put out their cigarette, when you cross their path!
Furthermore, I consider assault to be things such as someone throwing a punch at me, pushing me, spitting on me, or maybe even some forms of verbal confrontations. I would consider someone smoking a cigarette along the lines of if someone farts in an elevator, or someone who wears too much cologne, or a loud exhaust... and that is nothing more than minor annoyances! If you think someone smoking a cigarette is assaulting you, then you have way more serious issues. Anger comes to mind.
Finally, if someone like you were to get in my face (the way you're coming at people on here) in public when I'm following the proper protocol, or on my private property, I GOD DAMNED GUARANTEE you will get a reaction from me! And I can tell you, it more than likely will NOT be to your liking!
Irf you would keep you stinking stench to your sktinking selves, nobody would oject, but you unleash it on everyone else. Are you capable of seeing that?
even though you make a whole lot of sense, nothing you say, will sink in, she is not listening, she doesn't care, she's right and that is all that matters...period. So, unfortunetly your words fall on deaf ears....
she takes her subject to a whole other end of the spectrum, be it logical or illogical, to prove her point...
Exaggerating Grossly, the cause and effects, which is typical
no matter what you say, tipping the scales on logic, she will always come back with a rebuttal...she has to have the last say....it's all about winning....she really doesn't care if your right or wrong...or inbetween, and besides, she is so black and white, she can't perceive anything else.
It appears that way. And it would appear that the majority on this thread is not on the OP's nor her side regarding this issue.
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Originally Posted by Robin Rossi
You simpy don't get it, probably willfully. Smokers NEVER jsut mind their own business. Rather, they spew their "business" into the air ofthers are breathing. Read that sentece slowly 6 times or so, until you finally "get it".
They don't mind their own business? Perhaps if you would finally put on your "grown up pants" then you would do your best to avoid smokers, and places where it is allowed! You non-smokers got your wish with using the government to ban smoking in private establishments! So, cut the NAZI BS ALREADY!!! You should be happy!
Is the guy shotting a gun in the air on New Years just "minding his own business"?
We're not talking about shooting a gun in the air on New Years, are we? Furthermore, that is illegal! Smoking is not! I would think that you would know the difference instead of making ridiculous analogies! That's as bad as the Reefer Madness idiots saying "DUH if we legalize pot, let's just legalize murder DUH!"
You'll never get it. Smokers think the operate in a vacum where nobody else is, or, perchance, think this effluent isn't the vile,l foul effluent everyone else knows it is. To you, it is wonderful. It stops your shakiing and calms your nerves. To everyone else it is discomfort to the point of pain. Don't you understand that?? Or do you just not care about others.
Nope. You're probably right, I never will understand why there are people out there like you who feel the need to control others, when they can simply be a grown up and elliminate themselves from a situation that they may not like.
You deflected on my question about the noice from the unit next door.
I already told you what I would have done. In fact, I believe that made it very f***n' clear! Furthermore, noise, like the smell of smoke, or someone farting or taking a bath in cologne is a minor annoyance! Nothing more! So go ahead and p*** off one of your neighbors for all that I care! The thing about neighbors, it is usually wise to be friendly with them, and make them your ally, because you never know when you may need them, and vice versa!
Answer it directly, if you can.
I'll give you a big hint. YOu shouldn't have to beg or ask nicely not to have your rights proactively violated.
Smokers have to understand that in a conflict between their recreatonal drug use, and other people right not to be assaulted by toxic pollution, the right not to be assaulted is the clear "winner", and the law is realizing that smokers wouldn't respect others proactively, so laws are being crafted iand implemeted to protect the innocent (that would NOT be the smoker).
And yes, since you and your ilk used the government to throw us outside to smoke in the fresh air, then there is no offense, now is there? And now you want to further restrict it, such as extending it to personal property, and a person's dwelling! BULL***!!!! It's a power grab, and a control thing, that is all it is! Nothing more, nothing less. So at least spare us the hyperbole, and be honest here.
Now, if smokers would avail themselves of the already-existing option to get their drug fix in such a way as to NOT pollute the aire others have not only a right, but an absolute need to breathe, the issue would vanish, but sadly, the addict class refuses, by and large mandating the need for more and more protective legilsation to keep the effluent/polution (and that is what smokers produce), i.e. airborne sewerage, from asaulting others.
We already do follow the rules. But that isn't enough for you, is it? You can't just be happy, and continue to push. Well go ahead and continue to push lady! Because I along with those who actually respect all people's rights (and not the so-called fake respect in your Bizzaro World) will continue to push back. And believe me, you may not like it.
You bring it on yourself by abjectly refusing the proactively respect others. Your contemptuous, inflexible disregards for others is your stock in trade and your worste enemy.
Except that I do respect others. I can't smoke at the office. So what do I do? I go outside. I can't smoke in my house (I could, but I choose not to because I live with 2 non-smokers), so guess what? I go outside!!! I can no longer go to a restaurant and a bar anywhere in Ohio and light up a cigarette at the table. Do I need to give you a hint as to what I do next? DING DING DING!!! Could it be, oh I don't know... go outside??? Same with going to a Browns or Indians game.... 2 open air stadiums in the heart of a major city of 400,000 or more people with tons of cars, and factories spewing toxic s*** into the air daily. Smokers helped build those stadiums with the sin taxes that they implemented on cigarettes and alcohol, yet we're forced to walk out of our way and huddle in a small area to smoke! WE HELPED PAY FOR THOSE PLACES!!! So don't lecture me about respect, and my so-called respect of others! It is you who is being disrespectful and continuing to force your will on people!
Your right to stink up, poison-up the place, ends at the boundries of your place, but you refuse to accept that.
And you have no right to tell me that I can't smoke outside in the fresh air! Because you see, when people push, there comes a point, where others push back! You can't be happy with the regulations already in place! Nope. That's not good enough for you! Therefore, why should I have any ounce of respect for you? I think at this point, given that I've respectfully gone outside or to the proper designated smoking areas around private establishments, that I'm out of respect! If you're too blind to see that, then I can't help you.
Irf you would keep you stinking stench to your sktinking selves, nobody would oject, but you unleash it on everyone else. Are you capable of seeing that?
Your lack of comprehension is really an issue here. What part of me respecting non-smokers don't you get? As a smoker, I've gladly catered to the requests of non-smokers, and remove myself from the room to go smoke. And quite frankly the majority of non-smokers don't have a problem with it. I'm outside... cool! You obviously have an axe to grind with smokers, for God only knows why? Again, did a bunch of smokers tie you up and put you in a room for hours on end and force you to breathe it in? Seriously. I don't think I've seen anything this over the top as what you're saying! Your need for control of others and what they do is quite scary!
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It's not a hard concept, and this is what any mature individual would do. But unfortunately, too many people in this country that have this sense of ENTITLEMENT and feel the need to use government force to control others, because they don't like that person's life choices. When in fact, they could simply take steps to remove themselves from the situation! But no. That would make too much sense, I guess.
Nothing Crem said is wrong!
Same with going to a Browns or Indians game.... 2 open air stadiums in the heart of a major city of 400,000 or more people with tons of cars, and factories spewing toxic s*** into the air daily. Smokers helped build those stadiums with the sin taxes that they implemented on cigarettes and alcohol, yet we're forced to walk out of our way and huddle in a small area to smoke! WE HELPED PAY FOR THOSE PLACES!!! So don't lecture me about respect, and my so-called respect of others! It is you who is being disrespectful and continuing to force your will on people! 
