Okay, so what exactly is "The black experience"? (Barack Obama, identities)

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by desertdetroiter

Meh...the black church is the purveyor of the same nonsense that all the other churches push. It's just more harmful in the black community for some reason. If there were two things I could remove from the black community, it would be violence and the church as s primary institution. It had its day, but that day is long gone. Time for black folks to join the rest of the world and toss out that superstition nonsense. I don't understand why we don't wake up and realize that the church was used as a tool for docility during slavery. We don't have to be docile anymore.

It was used as a tool of docility because at the time, most slaves could not read the Bible and understand what it was saying. It wasn't the Bible that did those individuals wrong it was the slave masters who twisted the words in the Bible to justify slavery. The difference between the Black church and the true kingdom minded church is scripture. The black church does not go solely on scripture, it is largely influenced by culture which is why you see preachers who go out and tell you that homosexuality is wrong but then they tell you to go vote for Barack Obama or how they teach you that adultery is wrong but then go out an cheat on their spouses with members of their church. Those two things do not line up and have caused mass confusion. The Bible was not written to address a particular culture but people use it as such. If you have an issue with the church, it's the people that you really have an issue with, not the actual doctrine.

[desertdetroiter]

Originally Posted by pgtvatitans

It was used as a tool of docility because at the time, most slaves could not read the Bible and understand what it was saying. It wasn't the Bible that did those individuals wrong it was the slave masters who twisted the words in the Bible to justify slavery. The difference between the Black church and the true kingdom minded church is scripture. The black church does not go solely on scripture, it is largely influenced by culture which is why you see preachers who go out and tell you that homosexuality is wrong but then they tell you to go vote for Barack Obama or how they teach you that adultery is wrong but then go out an cheat on their spouses with members of their church. Those two things do not line up and have caused mass confusion. The Bible was not written to address a particular culture but people use it as such. If you have an issue with the church, it's the people that you really have an issue with, not the actual doctrine.

I have a major problem with both. No sense in having a problem with the people and NOT the doctrine. After all, the doctrine didn't fall out of the sky. It was written by people.

Anything that can be used to justify something good AND bad can't be all that good IMO.

That said, the same crap is taught in white churches. The black church isn't the only regressive church by a long shot. Not evenclose. Blacks just tend to take it to heart more than others, unfortunately.

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by desertdetroiter

I have a major problem with both. No sense in having a problem with the people and NOT the doctrine. After all, the doctrine didn't fall out of the sky. It was written by people.

It is technically true that the scripture was written by man, but it's not quite that simple. That is an overly simplistic way of explaining it. With that said, if people don't understand something how can they follow it. It's just like the constitution, if people don't understand the constitution in it's full context then they will abuse it and use it for their own gain. That is the same thing. There are a lot of people teaching and learning about the Bible that don't understand it. Every 'religion' has this. This is the reason why you have extremists Muslims and peaceful ones. Again it all goes back to people and their hearts.

Originally Posted by desertdetroiter

Anything that can be used to justify something good AND bad can't be all that good IMO.

So then your issue isn't really with the Bible then is it? Using your logic, doesn't matter what is created, you can turn it something bad. That shows you that what you are talking about is a people issue.

Originally Posted by desertdetroiter

That said, the same crap is taught in white churches. The black church isn't the only regressive church by a long shot. Not evenclose. Blacks just tend to take it to heart more than others, unfortunately.

Agreed. What makes blacks different too is because church has become more accepted into the general black culture. Church was ingrained in blacks from slavery. That's why you will see some of the smut-tiest televsion shows and movies, that will some how end up with black people going to church to 'get right' or to 'feel good'. The idea of what church is in the black community has been abused and has it's meaning. With the white church and any other ethnic churches, again, it's all about culture influence people more than scripture. The same thing happened in Biblical times with Jews. There were Jews who converted, that still allowed their culture to influence them even though they were under the new covenant.

[ObscureOpulence]

Originally Posted by victorianpunk

I watched an HORRENDOUSLY AWFUL CNN special called "who is black in America"? not too long ago (basically they concluded that the one drop rule is 100% valid and never questioned it) One black woman said of mixed people who question their ethnicity that they are black because they share the "black experience, even if they don't admit it."


Huh?

What the hell is "the black experience" exactly?

Is the "black experience" about being discriminated against? Well, if that's the cause than I suppose Mestizo Latinos, Asians, gays and women are also black. If that's all it is, than there are a lot of people who share the "black experience."

Is it culture? If that is the case than many mixed people (like myself) and blacks don't have the "black experience" either. I am not a fan of black culture: I hate "soul food", do not like rap and hip-hop "music", don't dance well, have no interest in basketball, speak proper American English with a slightly antiquated vernacular occasionally manifesting (I'm an anglophile, forgive me) and the two times I entered a black church I found the experience to be utterly terrifying.

I prefer heavy metal, new wave/alternative and goth/industrial music, my favorite cuisine is French and English and I usually prefer to eat light, I have a very limited interest in sports and I am a Gnostic Christian of esoteric leanings. So, how am I culturally black?

This goes to the very heart of the manner of this idea of a "black community." I have very little in common with majority of blacks and hence, feel know connection to any such "community". People of African descent are very diverse and have almost nothing in common save for melanin. A Somalia Muslim immigrant student of engineering has nothing in common with a black American DJ, and a mixed race student of comparative religion has nothing in common with a dark skinned black American felon who dropped out of High School.

Really, is melanin enough to hold a "community" together?

So, with the above in mind, please cease referring to each other as "brothas" and "sistas". I do not feel that a certain black youth who has been in the news recently was my "brotha"...this girl? The first time I heard her story I actually cried. She was indeed my "sister" in that I understand and feel for what she went through.

Murder of Sophie Lancaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So why should I feel a greater connection to someone simple because they have twice the melanin as I do and have some ancestors from the same place as my ancestors, while not feeling a connection to someone who lived a similar life to mine and was a similar person and was killed because of hate?

The "black experience" is a fraud that more and more people see through every day.

Soledad O'Brien is NOT even African American. Her mother is a darker toned mulatta woman from Cuba. Her father is Australian of direct Irish descent. Both of her parents are immigrant.

I respect how people choose to identify or how they change their identity but I would never support one's defense of the very racist one drop rule.

[thriftylefty]

Part of the black experience is the feeling that you are diffrent and being looked at as diffrent when you are only just like the majority of people in mainstream America. White people don't have this angst.

[victorianpunk]

Originally Posted by thriftylefty

Part of the black experience is the feeling that you are diffrent and being looked at as diffrent when you are only just like the majority of people in mainstream America. White people don't have this angst.

So, a gay white person who is only slightly different from the majority of the mainstream doesn't know what it's like to be looked at as different? Or how about Latinos? Or Jews?

I think the "black experience" is nothing more than blacks whining with this "woo is me" mindset and refusing to believe that they are not the only ones on Earth who face discrimination.

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by victorianpunk

I watched an HORRENDOUSLY AWFUL CNN special called "who is black in America"? not too long ago (basically they concluded that the one drop rule is 100% valid and never questioned it) One black woman said of mixed people who question their ethnicity that they are black because they share the "black experience, even if they don't admit it."


Huh?

What the hell is "the black experience" exactly?

Is the "black experience" about being discriminated against? Well, if that's the cause than I suppose Mestizo Latinos, Asians, gays and women are also black. If that's all it is, than there are a lot of people who share the "black experience."

Is it culture? If that is the case than many mixed people (like myself) and blacks don't have the "black experience" either. I am not a fan of black culture: I hate "soul food", do not like rap and hip-hop "music", don't dance well, have no interest in basketball, speak proper American English with a slightly antiquated vernacular occasionally manifesting (I'm an anglophile, forgive me) and the two times I entered a black church I found the experience to be utterly terrifying.

I prefer heavy metal, new wave/alternative and goth/industrial music, my favorite cuisine is French and English and I usually prefer to eat light, I have a very limited interest in sports and I am a Gnostic Christian of esoteric leanings. So, how am I culturally black?

This goes to the very heart of the manner of this idea of a "black community." I have very little in common with majority of blacks and hence, feel know connection to any such "community". People of African descent are very diverse and have almost nothing in common save for melanin. A Somalia Muslim immigrant student of engineering has nothing in common with a black American DJ, and a mixed race student of comparative religion has nothing in common with a dark skinned black American felon who dropped out of High School.

Really, is melanin enough to hold a "community" together?

So, with the above in mind, please cease referring to each other as "brothas" and "sistas". I do not feel that a certain black youth who has been in the news recently was my "brotha"...this girl? The first time I heard her story I actually cried. She was indeed my "sister" in that I understand and feel for what she went through.

Murder of Sophie Lancaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So why should I feel a greater connection to someone simple because they have twice the melanin as I do and have some ancestors from the same place as my ancestors, while not feeling a connection to someone who lived a similar life to mine and was a similar person and was killed because of hate?

The "black experience" is a fraud that more and more people see through every day.

So you dont believe in a black experience, yet you just filled your idea of "black culture" with about 20 black stereotypes.

pot meet kettle.....


Also, i dont think i have ever called another black person "brother" or "sister" besides the ones that were actually related to me.

[Iamme73]

Originally Posted by victorianpunk

I watched an HORRENDOUSLY AWFUL CNN special called "who is black in America"? not too long ago (basically they concluded that the one drop rule is 100% valid and never questioned it) One black woman said of mixed people who question their ethnicity that they are black because they share the "black experience, even if they don't admit it."


Huh?

What the hell is "the black experience" exactly?

Is the "black experience" about being discriminated against? Well, if that's the cause than I suppose Mestizo Latinos, Asians, gays and women are also black. If that's all it is, than there are a lot of people who share the "black experience."

Is it culture? If that is the case than many mixed people (like myself) and blacks don't have the "black experience" either. I am not a fan of black culture: I hate "soul food", do not like rap and hip-hop "music", don't dance well, have no interest in basketball, speak proper American English with a slightly antiquated vernacular occasionally manifesting (I'm an anglophile, forgive me) and the two times I entered a black church I found the experience to be utterly terrifying.

I prefer heavy metal, new wave/alternative and goth/industrial music, my favorite cuisine is French and English and I usually prefer to eat light, I have a very limited interest in sports and I am a Gnostic Christian of esoteric leanings. So, how am I culturally black?

This goes to the very heart of the manner of this idea of a "black community." I have very little in common with majority of blacks and hence, feel know connection to any such "community". People of African descent are very diverse and have almost nothing in common save for melanin. A Somalia Muslim immigrant student of engineering has nothing in common with a black American DJ, and a mixed race student of comparative religion has nothing in common with a dark skinned black American felon who dropped out of High School.

Really, is melanin enough to hold a "community" together?

So, with the above in mind, please cease referring to each other as "brothas" and "sistas". I do not feel that a certain black youth who has been in the news recently was my "brotha"...this girl? The first time I heard her story I actually cried. She was indeed my "sister" in that I understand and feel for what she went through.

Murder of Sophie Lancaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So why should I feel a greater connection to someone simple because they have twice the melanin as I do and have some ancestors from the same place as my ancestors, while not feeling a connection to someone who lived a similar life to mine and was a similar person and was killed because of hate?

The "black experience" is a fraud that more and more people see through every day.

There are multiple endless black experiences.

But you knew that already.

You are correct the idea of people forming a community on the basis of skin color IS dumb, but you are focusing on the wrong group.

The black racial identity was forced on black people. Africans as did most of humanity didn't identify themselves by skin color. The North Atlantic slave trade lead to the creation of race.

Europeans slave traders created racial categories and started grouping people based on skin color.

In fact, the foundation of the racial identity of white Americans depends on these racial categorizations based on white supremacy to give them group cohesion.

So ending racial categories begins and ends with ending the white racial identity and white supremacy.

Talking about how you don't feel connected to black Americans doesn't mean anything if American society identifies you as a black person and that seems to be your personal issue.

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by ObscureOpulence

Soledad O'Brien is NOT even African American. Her mother is a darker toned mulatta woman from Cuba. Her father is Australian of direct Irish descent. Both of her parents are immigrant.

I respect how people choose to identify or how they change their identity but I would never support one's defense of the very racist one drop rule.

Mulatto means racially mixed, her mother is indeed of African decent, but she didnt do this because she is black, she did it because it was her job. She also did the Muslim special and she isnt one.

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by victorianpunk

So, a gay white person who is only slightly different from the majority of the mainstream doesn't know what it's like to be looked at as different? Or how about Latinos? Or Jews?

I think the "black experience" is nothing more than blacks whining with this "woo is me" mindset and refusing to believe that they are not the only ones on Earth who face discrimination.

So you are saying no black person has ever been discriminated against based on color ?