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LOL, instead of going to another bakery, they filed a complaint. And avail yourself of the many examples of threatenting, mean-spirited comments, phone calls, the business owners have received.
Americans are free and under no obligation to accommodate religious beliefs they don't adhere to. They will do what they have to (as the Christian store owners did) to adapt.
Now, just who are the hate-filled, intolerant bigots again?
They should have. They were discriminated against.
Gay isn't a religion..
The business owners were the hate-filled, intolerant bigots.
Sorry, but it's absolutely no concern to the government as to who private people associate with or do business with.
Do you feel the government should audit you and say, "Mr. Jones, we notice that 50% of your friends are white, 30% of your friends are black and 18% of your friends are Asian, but only 2% of your friends are Hispanic. This does not represent the ratios that represent a proper diversity. We need you to change your ratios to fit Code 65.3 Section 6d, and if you fail to do so, we'll fine you for each offense." Do you feel the government should stop people from possibly discriminating against others or do you feel discrimination should be tolerated by those utilizing public roads, buildings, schools, etc?
You're not providing a very rational argument. Private associations and public accommodating businesses are two very different things. If you refused to sell your lawn mower to someone who was gay via a private sale I doubt there is much the government can or would do about it. Once you establish yourself as a business that is open to the public then the rules change. I don't think you're going to undo 60 years of civil rights laws just because you don't like.
Where would YOU draw the line, OP? (and forgive me if this has been answered, I didn't read all pages)
But if someone doesn't like the idea of homosexuality and can refuse to serve them, then where does it stop? Should Christians be allowed to refuse service to Jews, Muslims, Atheists? YES Should Atheists be allowed to refuse service to any other faith? YES Should Baptists not have to serve Lutherans? YES Let's forget about religion for a second. Should blacks not have to serve whites? Or Vice versa? YES
If this IS about the religious beliefs of some people, what about a woman who's been divorced? Should it be legal for places to not serve her? YES
In a multicultural, multi-religious, pluralistic society, you can't have a patchwork of laws like that.
As a divorced woman, I'd have to hunt down a store that will serve me. As a divorced atheist, my choices get narrower. As a divorced white, atheist woman, narrower still. As a divorced, atheist, white, gay-friendly woman there's a good chance I wouldn't be able to shop anywhere at all.
It's ridiculous.
Last edited by weltschmerz; 09-04-2013 at 12:04 PM..
As we have seen often on many issues people decide to go by their core beliefs .Its dne by both sides; its just like people deciding for and calling for a boycott really. Most states allow refusal to serve anyone for any reason in private owned businesses
Yes, we know. That being said, it's not a valid comparison. They don't serve pork or non-Kosher or Haram food to ANYONE. They don't pick and choose...."Well, I'll serve pork and shellfish to this one or that one, but not to you". They don't carry it in their stores, period.
The difference being that those cake owners HAD all the ingredients to bake a wedding cake. Were these lesbians asking for something the store didn't actually have? Did the store advertise they were CHRISTIAN Cake Owners, whatever the hell that is?
If I went there as a straight woman and said I want to buy a wedding cake for my daughter would they sell it to me? Of course they would. I could be VERY DECEITFUL and say don't put anything on top of the cake. Then go out myself, and buy two brides symbols, and put it on myself. They would never know. They would then be supplying a cake for a Lesbian Wedding. No, I wouldn't do that because I would never give BIGOTS my money, but there would be a way around it.
Yes, I have a lesbian daughter and she did get married a few weeks ago. She had no trouble getting a license, venue, or cake in NEW YORK.
As we have seen often on many issues people decide to go by their core beliefs .Its dne by both sides; its just like people deciding for and calling for a boycott really. Most states allow refusal to serve anyone for any reason in private owned businesses
Federal law trumps state regulations. Putting a sign in your windows or behind the counter that says "We reserve the right to refuse service" also doesn't get you off of the hook. Some of you are amazingly ignorant of the law. I hope you don't actually own a business.
BTW, look up the case of Kent Hovind. Use it as an example of what not to do in life.
As we have seen often on many issues people decide to go by their core beliefs .Its dne by both sides; its just like people deciding for and calling for a boycott really. Most states allow refusal to serve anyone for any reason in private owned businesses
"For any reason" doesn't really mean "for any reason."
You can do it for any reason as long as it's not on account of any number of protected grounds. Historical instances of discrimination and an attempt to ensure all citizens are treated equally is the goal.
It's a value judgment that actually HELPS the economy to be ordered in such a way, rather than HURTS the economy. Bigots blinded by their own faux outrage can't see that, however, because their worldview is predictably myopic.
Obviously you don't think it is the business of the government to make laws disallowing discrimination based on protected classes among the private sector. A laissez faire approach. The free market will take care of the "revolting" business owners who don't allow in coloreds or gays. The open, non-discriminatory businesses will rise to the top and the market will take care of itself. Maybe there will still be a niche for skinhead-themed restaurants in markets that support it. If there is, there is no issue. The government shall make no law and all that. I assume this is your position.
There are others who are claiming the discriminatory religious business owners getting nasty emails and become pariahs are a bad thing. They have a religious and constitutional right to refuse service to anyone who engages in any activity they feel is morally wrong. In turn, it is wrong that they are ostrasized as they are.
Do you agree with the latter group? I assume being a free market, non-interventionalist you would say that the anger these businesses receive is a natural expression of the markets' desire. Or maybe not. I am not getting at anything here.
I believe that protected groups are protected for a reason. All men are created equal and all that. I feel the government has a role in ensuring that all its citizens' rights are protected except where those rights directly disenfranchise others. That includes from other citizens and entities, not only the government itself. Following this train of thought I believe that murder is a violation of one's right of life and the government can make laws that forbid it, etc.
Of course the business can be ostracized if they take decide to do business in a way that the community feels is wrong. If a business decides not to serve Muslims, then Muslims should be able to picket that business, write letters and call for boycotts.
As far as murder goes, apples and oranges. Do you not see the difference in a business refusing to take photographs of a gay wedding (passive) and person murdering another person because they are gay (active)? That would be like trying to equate you not wanting to invite a Catholic to your home to you going out and murdering a Catholic.
Do you feel that the government should compel you to associate with specific people and groups?
If a business owner does not like the laws that govern his business, he should work to have them changed. Ignoring or breaking a law you don't agree with has consequences.
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