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Why aren't Utah and Idaho trending towards Democrats? Despite all of the "expert analysis" here, the real reason is Mormons. Utah, Idaho and Wyoming have the largest percentage populations of Mormon values voters in the country. Simple as that.
And liberals are not inclined to move their families to a place where they will be ostracized. Utah is a gorgeous state, but the theocracy is a bit offputting, to be honest. I have mixed feelings about the place. I don't really care for religious fundamentalism, but I must say the Mormons have many solid habits that create a decent economy. They are hardworking, abstemious, innovative, and invest in their communities. Their English and Scandinavian roots show through-in a good way.
The people coming to Ariz from CA are mostly the ones who can't make it in CA because of a lack of education and skills or the ones that can't stand the liberal politics, usually the older ones who have mobility because of liberal social safety net programs like SS and Medicare. The reason the border states are going blue is that the children and grandchildren of the Reagan amnesty generation are coming of age. They will eventually turn the intermountain states blue as well if the Republicans keep up with their anti-everything atittudes.
Tho some people left Calif because it's too crowded AND too expensive in LA. SF and so on. Too; many tradespeople also left because of illegal aliens pushing down wages tho that might change for the college crowd as well with Cali now allowing illegal aliens to practice law.
And liberals are not inclined to move their families to a place where they will be ostracized. Utah is a gorgeous state, but the theocracy is a bit offputting, to be honest. I have mixed feelings about the place. I don't really care for religious fundamentalism, but I must say the Mormons have many solid habits that create a decent economy. They are hardworking, abstemious, innovative, and invest in their communities. Their English and Scandinavian roots show through-in a good way.
Agreed. I also have mixed feelings about the Mormons like you said.
I left California, brought my business with me, as well as my girlfriend, her two kids, her mother and her sister. That's six people that California lost, along with my business, and we have since started a new business which is much more profitable and which also has employees.
So that's six people removed from the California tax base, along with two businesses and the revenue and jobs they've generated, as well as future taxes and jobs. Does that demonstrate enough intelligence and productivity for you?
And it sickens me that Las Vegas alone is what drives the vote in Nevada, and that so many of the people who left California for LV want to turn it into what they left. They're all idiots - they don't understand that the very things they're demanding are what turned California into a place they felt they had to leave. Stupid, stupid people.
Next stop - Texas. We need to be in a different time zone to better serve our east coast customers. We're looking at areas about an hour outside of Dallas. I'm not concerned about Texas - especially rural Texas - becoming Californized any time soon.
And liberals are not inclined to move their families to a place where they will be ostracized. Utah is a gorgeous state, but the theocracy is a bit offputting, to be honest. I have mixed feelings about the place. I don't really care for religious fundamentalism, but I must say the Mormons have many solid habits that create a decent economy. They are hardworking, abstemious, innovative, and invest in their communities. Their English and Scandinavian roots show through-in a good way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan
Agreed. I also have mixed feelings about the Mormons like you said.
So what you want, they wont raise your taxes, force your kids to learn worthless crap in school, or ever try to take your guns away..
I think you see both patterns. Blue voters from California tend to head to Oregon, Washington, Colorado, New Mexico, and Nevada. Red voters head to Utah, Idaho, Montana (actually Montana is a mixed bag), Texas, and Arizona. The "destination" immigrants are often very doctrinaire and add to the color of their chosen place. For example, N. Idaho is a magnet for California conservatives, such as retired police officers, who can live pretty fat with their CA equity, and CA pensions, and lots of time to gorge on partisan media. Colorado, in contrast, attracts classic liberals and is gradually turning blue, following Washington and Oregon.
I swear I am going to put my "Colorado has long been a purple state" spiel on a document somewhere so I can just retrieve it every time this comes up. Contrary to popular opinion from the outside, Colorado has long been PURPLE. In state politics, we've had more Democratic governors (4) than Republicans (1) in the 33 years that I've been here. We've had Dem (6) and Rep (3)senators, plus one who changed from D to R, Dem and Rep representatives. Currently, congressional delegation to the House of Rep has 4 Rs and 3 Ds. Right now, the Dems control both branches of the state govt. That may be subject to change come November. I don't think Colorado is attracting "classic liberals". High tech/engineering is big here; not fertile ground for "classic liberals". Colorado is PURPLE!
I swear I am going to put my "Colorado has long been a purple state" spiel on a document somewhere so I can just retrieve it every time this comes up. Contrary to popular opinion from the outside, Colorado has long been PURPLE. In state politics, we've had more Democratic governors (4) than Republicans (1) in the 33 years that I've been here. We've had Dem (6) and Rep (3)senators, plus one who changed from D to R, Dem and Rep representatives. Currently, congressional delegation to the House of Rep has 4 Rs and 3 Ds. Right now, the Dems control both branches of the state govt. That may be subject to change come November. I don't think Colorado is attracting "classic liberals". High tech/engineering is big here; not fertile ground for "classic liberals". Colorado is PURPLE!
And liberals are not inclined to move their families to a place where they will be ostracized.
And yet the majority of newcomers to the state are not LDS at all. Ever stop to consider why they would just keep immigrating "to a place where they will be ostracized." I find it really interesting is that most of the people who are always talking about how ostracized non-Mormons are in Utah really have no first-hand experience living there. I'm not trying to imply that there aren't exceptions. I'm just saying that probably more than half of the people now posting on the Salt Lake City forum are non-Mormons who have made Utah their home, by choice, and who have not ever felt themselves or their children to be ostracized. If anyone doubts me, it's easy enough to go to that forum and take a look at their comments. I'd say that they are overwhelmingly (by roughly a 4 to 1 margin) pleased with how they've been treated in Salt Lake City and with their lives here in general.
And, incidentally, the vast majority of practicing Utah Mormons on the forum have expressed the hope that their state will become more diverse over time.
I'm a native Idahoan. Throughout most of my life, Idaho has been moderately conservative, and for many years was a bellwether state that predicted which party would gain the Presidency.
But more than anything, Idaho has always had a libertarian bent that is shared by both parties. We all tend to be self-reliant out here, often to our disadvantage. Most of this is due to the fact that 40 minutes in any direction from our cities is wilderness, where few people and fewer services are to be found. If you can't get yourself out of trouble, you can't count on someone helping you out.
Idaho boomed in the 90's in large part due to our cheap real estate and our huge agricultural industry, and our growth favored some new industries to come in and others to start up, but the entire state is not, and has never been, solidly conservative everywhere. Like Montana, there are long standing pockets that are Democratic, especially in Boise and some of our other large (for Idaho) cities. And like Montana, which is also mostly rural and lightly populated, the smaller communities have always been Republican.
The bust was as big as the boom once things fell in in 2008, and Idaho has always been slower to recover from a recession than most of the nation. Every recession turns the state more conservative, so the GOP has become very large here since the 2000 election.
The thing most folks don't understand is Idaho is actually two states. We are cut in half by impassible mountains, and the north is much different from the south. No one lives in the middle. The south contains most of the population, and is mostly agricultural with a lot of light industry. The north depended on logging and mining, and both dried up in the 80's. It's population is much smaller, and depends on retirement and tourism now.
In time, the Democrats will return. They always have. The Republicans will always remain strong, and both parties will always have mostly moderate centers. Even though we veer into extremism once in a while, it never lasts for long.
Most all of the intermountain west is just the same. Utah, Wyoming, Nevada, Montana, Idaho and parts of E. Washington and Oregon all have the same vast distances, harsh weather, low populations, and the same challenges. Until a person lives out here for a while, outsiders really don't have much understanding of what our lifestyles and politics are all about.
The same can be said of the northern prairie states of the west as well.
Last edited by banjomike; 10-06-2013 at 03:08 PM..
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