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On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.
I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."
Barry Goldwater (GOP candidate for President 1964)
Speech in the US Senate (16 September 1981)
On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.
I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."
Barry Goldwater (GOP candidate for President 1964)
Speech in the US Senate (16 September 1981)
On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."
Barry Goldwater (GOP candidate for President 1964)
Speech in the US Senate (16 September 1981)
yea, but the current Tea party fanatics are not too religously based or they do not highlight those views. they're libertarian apathetics full of hate and depraved nihilism.
religous zealots were the Republican purists from the 80's till W; they've been pretty shut out since then (or atleast many of them feel that way)...
the one common demnominator between the two is hate.
I'm a liberal and I believe that President Obama and his administration have done plenty wrong. I think most Obama supporters believe the same as I do.
Agree. Lots of us just don't discuss it HERE. There are other places to debate politics - where there can actually be some intelligent back and forth instead of the right wing hyperbole on this forum. "The Messiah' is just one example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pch1013
Wrong. As far as I can tell, there is only one blind Obama-worshipper here on this forum. The idea that anyone who supports anything Obama does automatically supports everything he does is a classic example of projection from the cons, who have perfected the idea of "party above country." As evidence, I present the cons' reaction to the OP.
You're right. Projections are NOT just for movie theatres.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun
And I don't disagree, however that alone doesn't persuade me to the GOP. I think had Huntsman run for President I would have voted for him but the field doesn't like a moderate. We have to have extremes.
Huntsman should have been their nominee! So many people would have crossed that party line but it was never going to happen for Mitt Romney.
I was raised a Republican and my entire family are Republicans. I got turned off when I saw all of the hypocrisy during the Clinton years. They seemed just like rabid dogs going after Clinton for . . . a BJ?? Meanwhile, they were busy diddling other women of their own. Ugh.
I was raised a Republican and my entire family are Republicans. I got turned off when I saw all of the hypocrisy during the Clinton years. They seemed just like rabid dogs going after Clinton for . . . a BJ?? Meanwhile, they were busy diddling other women of their own. Ugh.
I never looked back.
I understand this. Gingrich being the worse of the bunch here. I am amazed that anyone still gives him air time. I understand the argument that goes "How can I support you for attacking someone that you yourself is doing many times over". I would never try and tell someone that isn't a valid position to hold. It is.
But then how you do you justify Obama's statements on raising the debt limit just a short time before he then took the exact opposite position?
The Bush team ran McCain into the mud prior to 9/11, and then Bush became the neo-cons dream darling for pre-emptive force and a policy of no diplomacy. The "Us vs. Them" crowd. They were in his house in 2000 and were waiting..
McCain was always more a pragmatist than a neo-con. Go diplomatic and if it fails- do what needs to be done. It was John Bolton and Robert Kagan, advisors later to McCain during 2008 that kept the philosophy of the Bush Doctrine alive in his camp. They figured they mights as well slide in order to keep the dream alive.
I'm not so sure that leaving the Republican party is the right move.
Look, this country MUST HAVE a healthy Republican party for our Republic to function properly. When the Republican party is dysfunctional, the Democratic party is a flailing, listless, lethargic, overreaching, and weak organization. And the Republican party is the same way when the Democrats aren't sharp.
If you want the party to be better, it's best to change it from within. The Republicans can't afford to lose its moderates even if many Republicans are too stupid to figure that out.
Anyway... I'm glad the OP has picked up on the present lunacy in politics, but try to fix the party at the primary grass roots level.... leaving won't help.
As the Republicans continue to alienate the center-right and continue to pander to the extreme right wing they will just become even more unelectable. You might have thought that the last two elections had taught them something. But no, it would seem not.
The Democrats, who have many faults and many impediments at least give the impression that they are listening to middle-America. The Republicans don't even bother any more.
Well, they might become more un-electable nationally. But I don't know if they will become more un-electable locally. It seems many states have consistently moved further and further to the right in recent years. For instance, my home state of Oklahoma was once a "battleground" state. We have a long history of progressivism, and voting in democratic governors and state representatives. But I can't imagine any new democrat winning any state office in Oklahoma in the future. The last democrat elected to a national post in Oklahoma, was Dan Boren in the 2nd Congressional district.
In 2000, Al Gore received 47% of the vote from Oklahoma's 2nd Congressional District. In 2004, Kerry received 41% of the vote. In 2008, Obama received 34% of the vote. And in 2012, Obama received only 32% of the vote.
If you take someone like Tom Coburn. He came into Congress in 1994. And the district he won in 1994, hadn't been held by a Republican since 1921.
I think this same pattern is probably happening in many other states as well. This country seems to be going in different directions. And I think while many people seem to be obsessed with the idea that the democrats are getting stronger nationally. They ignore the fact that, in many areas of the country. Conservatism, and especially people on the far-right, is more and more gaining ground. What is going to happen when this country effectively becomes two different countries. Where the 51% holds the other 49% hostage?
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