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Old 11-25-2007, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,505 posts, read 23,730,473 times
Reputation: 8837

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Well considering that 9-11 was an act committed by Sunni Muslims, primarily from Saudi Arabia (Wahaabi) who we are now funding and supporting in Iraq. So once again this overly simplistic and binary manner of speaking to certain segments of the American population might work in a rural Texas bar, it does not play well in a geopolitical context.

Exactly-! Like after 9/11 and the press conference, he says:

""smoke 'em out of their holes".....

How embarassing... He sounded like Chuck Connors from a 1950's TV series.
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:12 AM
 
3,322 posts, read 4,534,386 times
Reputation: 1539
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
So...are the Pakistanis and Saudis that torture and oppress their people and treat their women like dirt for us or against us? White or black hats?

And what about our holding people at Gitmo forever, when over half of them still can't be connected to any terrorism or activity. And our waterboarding and other torture techniques we like to employ around the world. And the atrocities that our side has committed in Iraq, some we know about, some we don't.

Bush's remarks just might have convinced some Muslims to say, "Well put it like that, I guess I will get off the fence and join my Muslim friends against you."


Kind of like his "Bring it on" or his "I want Osama dead or alive" or his "Axis of Evil". Bush is living in a cartoon world, and we in the real world have to deal with the effects of his stupid remarks.

Personally, I think Pakistan and SA are against us. Always have been. In terms of what Bush said, his point was either you support our war on terrorism or don't. If you don't, we will take issue with you and remember your non-support.

If it did convince some Muslim's to make a decision as to what side they're on, then terrific. Knowing the enemy is vitally important. If one is wishy-washy, then they aren't on our side and never had an interest in being on our side.

You ask about our supposed torture techniques. What about the murders on 9/11? The beheadings afterward? The attempts on more attacks here in the States? London? Spain? Bali? You're worried about us abiding by some rules of war yet the forces we are fighting use anything and everything at their means to cause us harm. As far as atrocities in Iraq, please tell me what atrocities that we have partaken in, and spare me the NY Times links.

Yes, the "bring it on" quote was stupid and foolish. He should have been called out on this more than he was.

Tell me, what's your opinions on all these movies that are shedding a negative light on our military?
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,396 posts, read 7,059,389 times
Reputation: 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by theroc5156 View Post
You ask about our supposed torture techniques. What about the murders on 9/11? The beheadings afterward? The attempts on more attacks here in the States? London? Spain? Bali? You're worried about us abiding by some rules of war yet the forces we are fighting use anything and everything at their means to cause us harm. As far as atrocities in Iraq, please tell me what atrocities that we have partaken in, and spare me the NY Times links.

Yes, the "bring it on" quote was stupid and foolish. He should have been called out on this more than he was.

Tell me, what's your opinions on all these movies that are shedding a negative light on our military?
Sure, but our "supposed" torture techniques have additional unintended ramifications that we would do well to consider. It puts our troops and citizens around the world in more danger for retaliation attacks. It also makes us lose credibility as a nation when we go out and ask other countries to join us as "the good guys", or when we try to speak out against other atrocities going on in the world.

Atrocities in Iraq. Of course many innocent Iraqis have been killed by our troops. A recent survey of troops in Iraq came back found that the majority felt noncombatants should not be treated with dignity or respect. Only about half saying they would not report a fellow comrade that committed any immoral acts or acts upon civilians. Ten percent admitted to abusing/mistreating civilians. The Pentagon has publicly admitted to investigating 600 of our soldiers relating to abuse and killings of Iraqis. And by the way I do not judge them or look down upon them for this, people are trying to kill them every day. They develop a bunker mentality. Any vet will tell you this is what happens. I feel as bad for them as I do for the innocent Iraqis. You choose not to believe this, that is certainly your prerogative.


What do I think of the movies? I have not seen them or given them much thought, to tell you the truth. I heard Lions for Lambs was pretty boring. I can tell you though I read some Iraqi vets were disappointed by the low turnout, because this to them further signifies a public disconnect with them and the War. They would prefer to see demonstrations in the streets against the War compared to what they come back to today. They sacrifice completely, see and sometimes do terrible things in the name of our country, and come back and it is like it is never even going on here. Some yellow bumper stickers are the only sign we know about them at all. That is why we need a draft back to spread the sacrifice...unless the politicians then decide enough is enough.
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:16 PM
 
Location: The best country in the world: the USA
1,497 posts, read 4,441,233 times
Reputation: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
Don't believe me, ask your Pres.

Bush spoke October 4 with Al Arabiya television and answered questions concerning the War on Terror and the freedom of religion in the United States

President Bush said the Islamic religion “is a great religion that preaches peace,” and that Americans are free “to worship any way they see fit.”

Muslim extremists have “done a good job of propagandizing” the idea that Americans do not like the Islamic faith, Bush said, stating his own belief that the global community, regardless of individual faiths, “prays to the same God.”

“[Y]ou can be free to worship, and it’s your choice to make. It’s not the state’s choice, and you shouldn’t be intimidated after you’ve made your choice,” Bush said, adding that religious freedom is “a right that I jealously guard.”

Those who carried out the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks against New York and Washington “do not reflect the views of the vast majority of peaceful people in the Middle East.”

The president said “the last thing” he wants to be is a president during wartime and added the war against terror “is not a struggle against … the Muslim religion.”

Bush Says Islam Is a ‚€œGreat Religion that Preaches Peace‚€Ě (http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2007&m=October&x=20071005143134esnamfuak 0.9335138 - broken link)
Oh yeah... it is a "wonderfully peaceful" religion.

They execute gays, give 200 lashes to women who get raped, blow up buildings in NYC, preach hatred and intolerance against any non-Islamic religion, teach kids to hate Americans and kill Jews in Madrassas, blow up people in malls and street markets, just because..... wonderful stuff!
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Old 11-26-2007, 01:22 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,556 posts, read 19,269,169 times
Reputation: 2499
Quote:
Originally Posted by allah truth View Post
judaism christianity and islam have seemed to have been very prone to violence through out history
Yes,history being the operative word.

TODAY Islam is involved in almost all of the troubles around the globe,not just against the USA(although people seem to fixate on this part) but everywhere.

Thailand is in the midst of a civil war where Muslims behead innocent civilians because they are Buddhist living in the south.

And to put numbers into perspective,the percentage of Muslims polled who support terrorist violence is in the upper teens....
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Old 11-26-2007, 01:28 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,556 posts, read 19,269,169 times
Reputation: 2499
Quote:
Originally Posted by allah truth View Post
you ever hear of the crusades?..you ever hear what christianity did to people who went against it in its early days...off with their heads...just as violent..if not more then islam today...
You mean when Chrsitians attempted to take BACK Christian lands from Muslim invaders?
Those Crusades?


As to what was done almost a thousand years ago by Christians,by comparing the atrocities do you mean Islam is living 1000 years in the past?
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Old 11-26-2007, 01:39 PM
 
3,322 posts, read 4,534,386 times
Reputation: 1539
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
Sure, but our "supposed" torture techniques have additional unintended ramifications that we would do well to consider. It puts our troops and citizens around the world in more danger for retaliation attacks. It also makes us lose credibility as a nation when we go out and ask other countries to join us as "the good guys", or when we try to speak out against other atrocities going on in the world.

Atrocities in Iraq. Of course many innocent Iraqis have been killed by our troops. A recent survey of troops in Iraq came back found that the majority felt noncombatants should not be treated with dignity or respect. Only about half saying they would not report a fellow comrade that committed any immoral acts or acts upon civilians. Ten percent admitted to abusing/mistreating civilians. The Pentagon has publicly admitted to investigating 600 of our soldiers relating to abuse and killings of Iraqis. And by the way I do not judge them or look down upon them for this, people are trying to kill them every day. They develop a bunker mentality. Any vet will tell you this is what happens. I feel as bad for them as I do for the innocent Iraqis. You choose not to believe this, that is certainly your prerogative.


What do I think of the movies? I have not seen them or given them much thought, to tell you the truth. I heard Lions for Lambs was pretty boring. I can tell you though I read some Iraqi vets were disappointed by the low turnout, because this to them further signifies a public disconnect with them and the War. They would prefer to see demonstrations in the streets against the War compared to what they come back to today. They sacrifice completely, see and sometimes do terrible things in the name of our country, and come back and it is like it is never even going on here. Some yellow bumper stickers are the only sign we know about them at all. That is why we need a draft back to spread the sacrifice...unless the politicians then decide enough is enough.

While I am not saying anything you wrote is BS, I would like legitimate links to the stats you present.

Our troops and citizens were already in danger long before any of the supposed torture was taking place.
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Old 11-26-2007, 01:42 PM
 
1,352 posts, read 4,223,273 times
Reputation: 580
I think that TnHilltopper summed it up best. I believe that all those persons who continue to insist that Islam, as a whole, is a violent religion, should get their "heads out of the sand" and read (it is fundamental).

Others are insinuating that Christianity has no violent wording based on the New Testament however, I don't hear nor have ever heard any Christian "denounce" the Old Testament.

At the end of the day - it's all based on interpretation. One should RESPECT all religions and persons, PERIOD - whether or not you agree or disagree. A Christian cannot denounce a Muslim because of his faith or because of what some radical Muslim did, the same way one Jew shouldn't denounce a Christian because of something that a Chrisitian radical did, in the name of his/her God.
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Old 11-26-2007, 01:44 PM
 
3,322 posts, read 4,534,386 times
Reputation: 1539
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayannaaaliyah View Post
I think that TnHilltopper summed it up best. I believe that all those persons who continue to insist that Islam, as a whole, is a violent religion, should get their "heads out of the sand" and read (it is fundamental).

Others are insinuating that Christianity has no violent wording based on the New Testament however, I don't hear nor have ever heard any Christian "denounce" the Old Testament.

At the end of the day - it's all based on interpretation. One should RESPECT all religions and persons, PERIOD - whether or not you agree or disagree. A Christian cannot denounce a Muslim because of his faith or because of what some radical Muslim did, the same way one Jew shouldn't denounce a Christian because of something that a Chrisitian radical did, in the name of his/her God.

I agree. But why is it that Christians in some Muslim countries aren't free to worship the way they want, or, have to pay a tax and aren't afforded the same opportunities as Muslims??
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Old 11-26-2007, 01:44 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,912,077 times
Reputation: 2989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana-Guy View Post
Oh yeah... it is a "wonderfully peaceful" religion.

They execute gays, give 200 lashes to women who get raped, blow up buildings in NYC, preach hatred and intolerance against any non-Islamic religion, teach kids to hate Americans and kill Jews in Madrassas, blow up people in malls and street markets, just because..... wonderful stuff!
OK OK OK--we get your point. They do a few things you disagree with. But could you be more specific?. What, SPECIFICALLY, are they really doing wrong, other than acting according to the principles of their culture? (Which, really, is what we're ALL doing)....
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