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Old 11-13-2013, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,492,759 times
Reputation: 9618

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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
LOL, uhmmm no.

Seriously. you've probably said this for a while, it was true a year ago, but not now. in fact, its 5X what it was (adjusted for inflation) in 1945 after the war. Now maybe you are referring to it as a % of our GDP? Then...yeah theres a point in 1985ish or so where thats true...but mostly no.

Heres some information on it in graphs:
America’s staggering defense budget, in charts
uhm no

the 1980 (carters last year) defense budget 340 billion ....
...would be 932 billion in todays' (constant) dollars

bush1's 1990 523 billion dollar(WAR (desert storm)) budget....904 billion in todays dollars

our current defense budget.....676 billion

our current budget is smaller than carters peace time budget.. in todays' dollars
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:08 PM
 
26,504 posts, read 15,084,039 times
Reputation: 14662
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
uhm no

the 1980 (carters last year) defense budget 340 billion ....
...would be 932 billion in todays' (constant) dollars

bush1's 1990 523 billion dollar(WAR (desert storm)) budget....904 billion in todays dollars

our current defense budget.....676 billion

our current budget is smaller than carters peace time budget.. in todays' dollars
It is wrong to use inflation to compare the value of a dollar over the course of 34 years. It distorts the talking points.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:15 PM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,380,515 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
uhm no

the 1980 (carters last year) defense budget 340 billion ....
...would be 932 billion in todays' (constant) dollars

bush1's 1990 523 billion dollar(WAR (desert storm)) budget....904 billion in todays dollars

our current defense budget.....676 billion

our current budget is smaller than carters peace time budget.. in todays' dollars
that 340 billion figure you use....this may shock you, but that WAS inflation adjusted.
The actual number in 1976 for example was 105 billion.

Controlling the Defense Budget | Foreign Affairs
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:27 PM
 
3,953 posts, read 5,092,281 times
Reputation: 2574
This is a fantastic video!

Wealth Inequality in America


Wealth Inequality in America - YouTube
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:39 PM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,380,515 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzmeister View Post
This is a fantastic video!
I had different words for that.

Horrifying, disgusting, perturbing, rage inducing, etc. But yeah. Its a excellent video to show people and help them understand whats been happening. Then they too can feel the same feelings of....rage, horror, and disgust as I do.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:51 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,036 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzmeister View Post
This is a fantastic video!

Wealth Inequality in America


Wealth Inequality in America - YouTube
You're doing it to yourselves.

Economist Anatole Kaletsky:
Quote:
Kaletsky argues that over-reliance on progressives taxes creates “a perverse incentive for governments to promote income inequality. If the solvency of the state and the ability to fund basic services for the poorest people in society depends on the rich getting even richer, it is tempting for even the most progressive politicians to support widening inequalities.”
The liberal case for regressive taxation - Salon.com

Under our current progressive tax structure, politicians have every incentive to keep the income gap as wide as possible in order to maximize tax revenue, which is then used to buy votes from the much more numerous middle and lower classes by promising them free and/or reduced-cost services.

http://themonkeycage.org/wp-content/...02/figure2.jpg

Other countries' taxes are highly regressive - Washington Post

Countries that have regressive tax systems also have far less income inequality. Our progressive tax system actually creates an incentive for the government to promote highly unequal incomes. The more the top 1% earns, the more tax revenue the government collects. More here:
https://www.city-data.com/forum/28408475-post977.html

Last edited by CaseyB; 11-18-2013 at 10:33 AM..
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:59 PM
 
26,504 posts, read 15,084,039 times
Reputation: 14662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzmeister View Post
This is a fantastic video!

Wealth Inequality in America


Wealth Inequality in America - YouTube
A couple points...

There is a myth that wages have been stagnant since the 1960s. This fallacy ignores a number of things. Including, millions of low-skill (low wage) immigrants moving into the country and the resilient American economy finding jobs for them during this time period and millions of women entering the workforce in big numbers for the first time and into low skill/low wage jobs. The economy factually grew leaps and bounds in terms of low wage jobs to compensate for the rapid demand in low skill workers.

When you take wage studies that focus on individuals, wages BEAT inflation AND the percentage that Americans spend on the necessities have gone down.

Likewise the growing "inequality" trend in America ignores the influx of millions of low-skill/low wage/little or no-wealth immigrants and also the increase in government dependence.

Unlike the stagnant wages myth, there still would be a growing trend in inequality and there is some truth there. But much of it vanishes when you factor out immigration of people with little to no wealth. Also, with record numbers of people on SS disability, welfare, other government assistance...how does someone not working expect to build wealth?

With the advent of the credit card and today's culture where it is cool to live above your means and borrow $80+interest that you don't have instead of saving...how can we build wealth as a society?
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:00 PM
 
26,504 posts, read 15,084,039 times
Reputation: 14662
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
You're doing it to yourselves.

Economist Anatole Kaletsky: The liberal case for regressive taxation - Salon.com

Under our current progressive tax structure, politicians have every incentive to keep the income gap as wide as possible in order to maximize tax revenue, which is then used to buy votes from the much more numerous middle and lower classes by promising them free and/or reduced-cost services.



Other countries' taxes are highly regressive - Washington Post

Countries that have regressive tax systems also have far less income inequality. Our progressive tax system actually creates an incentive for the government to promote highly unequal incomes. The more the top 1% earns, the more tax revenue the government collects. More here:
https://www.city-data.com/forum/28408475-post977.html
The top 1% have seen 121% of the wage increases under Obama. The Richest 1 Percent Have Captured 121 Percent Of Income Gains During The Recovery | ThinkProgress
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:13 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,036 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
At the same time Obama is expanding the Medicaid and food stamp programs.

Which nets more votes? One person earning $1,000,000? Or 50 people earning $20,000 each and on food stamps and Medicaid?

It's in the Democrats' best interest to keep as many people as poor as possible and buy votes from them by providing free government benefits and services, while maximizing tax revenue collected from the top 1% who pay the highest effective federal income tax rates. Hence...
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
The top 1% have seen 121% of the wage increases under Obama.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:25 PM
 
5,633 posts, read 5,361,803 times
Reputation: 3855
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
the 1980 (carters last year) defense budget 340 billion .......would be 932 billion in todays' (constant) dollars

bush1's 1990 523 billion dollar(WAR (desert storm)) budget....904 billion in todays dollars

our current defense budget.....676 billion

our current budget is smaller than carters peace time budget.. in todays' dollars
Ummm...you are wrong.


That graph is in constant 2005 dollars. And according to usgovernmentspending.com, in constant 2005 dollars, the defense budget was $351.58b in 1980, $473.84b in 1990, and $725.06b in 2013. We are not spending less, we are spending more than double what we did in 1980.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
A couple points...

There is a myth that wages have been stagnant since the 1960s.
Well, certainly minimum wage has. It's actually gone down considerably since the 1960s. And with it, I'm sure many other wages that are more closely tied to the minimum wage (such as those who say "we don't pay minimum wage!!!" while paying $7.50 an hour). There may be millions more immigrants and women workers, that doesn't mean wages are better now than they were then for a large sector of the population.
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