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Old 12-06-2013, 03:19 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,334,196 times
Reputation: 7627

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Drafting Docs | National Review Online
Good piece from Kevin Williamson (really like his stuff) about the economics of medicare expansion. In my state we have signed up about 150,000 new medicare recipients since Oct 1. This effectively shifts the demand curve up for medical services. With no corresponding shift in supply, that would normally mean price increases. Those willing to buy at the new, higher price levels would buy, and suppliers would rush to fill the need.

Of course it doesn't work that way under Obamacare. The IPAB sets the prices, not supply-demand. So what will happen? Any economist can tell you: shortages. All those happy new enrollees will have to fight,, scratch, and wait in line to get their Obamacare. Maybe the death panels will be able to get rid of some of them, so that the shortages are not so severe.
As opposed to them not getting ANY healthcare before?

Ken

 
Old 12-06-2013, 03:40 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,334,196 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
Did you notice it's the Red states that are doing this ? The major Blue states like NY, CA have said no you cannot.

They know ACA will not be successful if they don't force you into the program.
So Blue state leaders are smarter than Red state leaders?
Or are Red state leaders simply trying to sabotage Obamacare?


Ken
 
Old 12-06-2013, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Limbo
6,512 posts, read 7,550,899 times
Reputation: 6319
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
I'd like to see your link that says any different.
Burden of proof is not on me.

If you made the claim, you back it up.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,078 posts, read 51,239,172 times
Reputation: 28324
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
So Blue state leaders are smarter than Red state leaders?
Or are Red state leaders simply trying to sabotage Obamacare?


Ken
Texas, America's Red State, stands to lose $9.8 billion by not participating in Obamacare. A net loss of $9.2 billion worth of health care jobs, construction, education is being sent to other states from the pockets of Texas taxpayers. This amount is twice what Texas takes in highway revenue sharing funds, a program that apparently does suit them politically. Happy Texan will soon be here denying this, but facts are facts. Texas and the red states that are refusing to participate are paying for the program and getting nothing back in return. Not only are they losing out on revenue that they paid, they still face the cost of providing care for all the people who will not be covered under the program in their states. This is not sabotage; it is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/me...sion_ib_v2.pdf (Exhibit 2)
 
Old 12-06-2013, 07:13 AM
 
15,047 posts, read 8,874,591 times
Reputation: 9510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Texas, America's Red State, stands to lose $9.8 billion by not participating in Obamacare. A net loss of $9.2 billion worth of health care jobs, construction, education is being sent to other states from the pockets of Texas taxpayers. This amount is twice what Texas takes in highway revenue sharing funds, a program that apparently does suit them politically. Happy Texan will soon be here denying this, but facts are facts. Texas and the red states that are refusing to participate are paying for the program and getting nothing back in return. Not only are they losing out on revenue that they paid, they still face the cost of providing care for all the people who will not be covered under the program in their states. This is not sabotage; it is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/me...sion_ib_v2.pdf (Exhibit 2)
The governors in red states who refused to expand Medicaid don't care about the uninsured in their states, or at least they care less about them than they do about politics. But they will start to care once their constituents (i.e., voters) begin to realize that their leaders deliberately kept them from having healthcare to make political points, and that the people right across the state line are getting services that they are being denied, simply to serve an ideology.

I predict that the governors and legislators of many red states are going to change their minds pretty quickly, and it won't be because they suddenly care about the uninsured, it will be because they definitely care about their own jobs. And hospital lobbies in those red states are going to help those Republican politicians to get there quicker, as they stand to lose a lot of money right now if the states they operate in continue to be obstinate.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,419,987 times
Reputation: 4190
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
So Blue state leaders are smarter than Red state leaders?
Or are Red state leaders simply trying to sabotage Obamacare?


Ken
Didn't you move from a Blue state to a Red State...
 
Old 12-06-2013, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Texas, America's Red State, stands to lose $9.8 billion by not participating in Obamacare. A net loss of $9.2 billion worth of health care jobs, construction, education is being sent to other states from the pockets of Texas taxpayers. This amount is twice what Texas takes in highway revenue sharing funds, a program that apparently does suit them politically. Happy Texan will soon be here denying this, but facts are facts. Texas and the red states that are refusing to participate are paying for the program and getting nothing back in return. Not only are they losing out on revenue that they paid, they still face the cost of providing care for all the people who will not be covered under the program in their states. This is not sabotage; it is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/me...sion_ib_v2.pdf (Exhibit 2)
How can we "lose" money if Texas is taking in more then they send every year ?
We turned into a receiver of Fed money in 2011 (we got $1.03 for every $1.00 we sent).

You should be glad that 25 states refused to expand medicaid.
That's money the Fed does not have.

"Free" money is dangled to states with strings attached.
They say "no".

How can we "lose" if that money doesn't exist today ?
 
Old 12-06-2013, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,078 posts, read 51,239,172 times
Reputation: 28324
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
How can we "lose" money if Texas is taking in more then they send every year ?
We turned into a receiver of Fed money in 2011 (we got $1.03 for ever $1.00 we sent).

You should be glad that 25 states refused to expand medicaid.
That's money the Fed does not have.
As predicted.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
As predicted.
Refute what I claimed. I didn't "deny" as you predicted did I ?
I asked how can we lose money if we get back more than we send in.

If we're getting $1.03 for every $1.00 we send to DC how can we be losing money?
The article listed the states and what they were losing but went into no detail.

Are we losing new free money ?

The correct wording should be "Texas losing out on getting additional federal money" as well as the other states that said no.
 
Old 12-06-2013, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,078 posts, read 51,239,172 times
Reputation: 28324
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Refute what I claimed. I didn't "deny" as you predicted did I ?
I asked how can we lose money if we get back more than we send in.

If we're getting $1.03 for every $1.00 we send to DC how can we be losing money?
The article listed the states and what they were losing but went into no detail.

Are we losing new free money ?

The correct wording should be "Texas losing out on getting additional federal money" as well as the other states that said no.
You don't avoid the taxes by not playing the game. Texans are being taxed billions of dollars to pay for a Medicaid expansion that they are not participating in. The money is going out, but is not coming back. On top of that, you still have the problem of providing care to those who would have been covered, although that falls on the providers mostly and to some extent is passed on in higher health care costs and insurance rates.
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