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As a matter of fact, if Hillary hadn't called him late in the evening of the 11th to get his 'perspective' he'd have read about Benghazi in the paper the next morning . . . a Las Vegas newspaper.
That's bull and you know it! - It's their position after the fact. No one knew how long this attack would last and whether support would reach them in time or not.
Don't be stupid. What we knew was that we could evacuate the remaining personnel faster than we could get any military assets there. And so that's what we did.
See how that works?
Quote:
Originally Posted by xray731
After the fact - they came up with the story that it wouldn't have done any good as help would not have reached them - despite what military personnel on the ground and in close positions say.
You've apparently never had a bullet fired at you in anger. In the real universe, the "military personnel on the ground and in close positions" are generally in the worst position of anyone to have a clue regarding what resources could get to them when.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xray731
We have witnesses to a stand down order that were on the ground and ready to go - but you believe the POTUS that this never occurred.
It's not "the POTUS" that says this. It is everyone in the actual position to know who says this. There was no stand down order. Ever.
That's bull and you know it! - It's their position after the fact. No one knew how long this attack would last and whether support would reach them in time or not. After the fact - they came up with the story that it wouldn't have done any good as help would not have reached them - despite what military personnel on the ground and in close positions say. We have witnesses to a stand down order that were on the ground and ready to go - but you believe the POTUS that this never occurred. He who wouldn't know the truth because he couldn't be found. Believe what you want. God help you all if you or yours are in the position that these people were and believed in your country to help you. You will then know the truth - but it will be a little too late.
Your right, no one knew when the attack would end. As it turned out units were still being deployed after the attack had ended.
I don't need to believe the President, we have the testimony of the commanders in the chain of command.
V. There was no “stand down” order issued to U.S. military personnel in Tripoli who
sought to join the fight in Benghazi. However, because official reviews after the attack
were not sufficiently comprehensive, there was confusion about the roles and
responsibilities of these individuals.
After the Benghazi attack began, six U.S. security personnel left the embassy in Tripoli
on a chartered Libyan aircraft to lend assistance.94 Two of these individuals were U.S. soldiers
on a specialized assignment who took orders in such circumstances from authorities outside of
AFRICOM and Special Operations Command-Africa (SOCAFRICA).95 These were the only
U.S. military personnel who got to Benghazi before survivors arrived in Tripoli on a chartered
plane, and they performed heroically.
Four other military personnel remained behind in Tripoli. They comprised the reduced
and revamped Security Support Team and were assigned to AFRICOM.96 Army Lieutenant
Colonel S.E. Gibson, who led the reconfigured SST, told the committee that when he learned of
the attack in Benghazi “[t]here were concerns this might be part of a larger coordinated attack . .
. with the U.S. Embassy [in] Tripoli being targeted.”97 Indeed, Colonel George Bristol of the
Joint Special Operations Task Force – Trans Sahara briefed the committee that he told
Lieutenant Colonel Gibson in a quick telephone call from another country in Africa “that the
U.S. embassy in Tripoli was his priority” and he must “ensure that it was protected.”98
Therefore, because of concern about the possibility of a follow-on attack in Tripoli, the four SST
soldiers, including a medic, joined “less than a handful” of State Department security personnel
in helping to safeguard embassy staff and facilities.99
However, after the diplomatic staff had been moved to what Lieutenant Colonel Gibson
considered a “secure” location in Tripoli, he informed AFRICOM that he was about to take his
three special operators to Benghazi on a Libyan transport plane. At that time, Rear Admiral
Brian L. Losey, SOCAFRICA’s commander, conveyed an order to Lieutenant Colonel Gibson to
remain in Tripoli to defend Americans there.100 Rear Admiral Losey said he was concerned
about the possibility of follow-on attacks in Tripoli or a potential for attempts at hostage
taking.101 Preferring to move, however, Lieutenant Colonel Gibson told the committee he was
“visibly upset” at the time.102 But, Rear Admiral Losey explained to the committee that it was
rooted in his belief that Lieutenant Colonel Gibson’s team was “the only military element . . . in
Tripoli that had any security experience whatsoever” and “it seemed prudent” to divide the few
military personnel in Libya between Tripoli and Benghazi rather than concentrate them in one
location.103 He said his decision was based on consultation with two other officers and the three
had “about 90 years of collective Special Operations experience” between them.104
M
On top of everything else, if the 4 had left Tripoli for Benghazi they would have found an evacuated facility, because the transports to fly the survivors to Tripoli had arrived in Benghazi.
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I thank you for your service - but you of anyone with the motto "No man left behind" should be the first to question why there was not additional protection allocated and why resources - foreign or our own were not deployed to help the situation. So the people who heard the stand down order that were waiting to board their aircrafts to lend support are all liers?
I thank you for your service - but you of anyone with the motto "No man left behind" should be the first to question why there was not additional protection allocated and why resources - foreign or our own were not deployed to help the situation.
All the forces that could have helped the situation were deployed. Reinforcements actually had arrived from Tripoli by the time of the second attack. No man was left behind.
Anybody can second guess anything in retrospect. But as the old military saying goes, "Battle plans never survive first contact with the enemy."
Quote:
Originally Posted by xray731
So the people who heard the stand down order that were waiting to board their aircrafts to lend support are all liers?
I wouldn't call them liars. I would call them soldiers and airman frustrated by the circumstances who wish they could have done more but who could not have.
And a bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee report released in January said: “The Committee has reviewed the allegations that U.S. personnel, including in the IC [Intelligence Community] or DOD, prevented the mounting of any military relief effort during the attacks, but the Committee has not found any of these allegations to be substantiated.”
GATES: I think the one place where I might be able to say something useful
has to do with some of the talk of the military response. And I listened to the
testimony of both Secretary Panetta and General Dempsey, and frankly had I been
in the job at the time, I think that my decisions would have been just as theirs
were. We don't have a ready force standing by in the Middle East, despite all
the turmoil that's going on with planes on strip alert, troops ready to deploy
at a moment's notice. And so getting someone there in a timely way would have
been very difficult if not impossible....
Why were we running arms out of an embassy? People get distracted over what happened during the attack when that is important to the families in the big picture as a country the rest is more important.
Why is no one asking why we were running arms out of the embassy?
I thank you for your service - but you of anyone with the motto "No man left behind" should be the first to question why there was not additional protection allocated and why resources - foreign or our own were not deployed to help the situation. So the people who heard the stand down order that were waiting to board their aircrafts to lend support are all liers?
Gibson wasn't ordered to stand down, he was ordered to defend the personnel in Tripoli, which is by the way where the Americans in Benghazi were heading.
However, after the diplomatic staff had been moved to what Lieutenant Colonel Gibson
considered a “secure” location in Tripoli, he informed AFRICOM that he was about to take his
three special operators to Benghazi on a Libyan transport plane. At that time, Rear Admiral
Brian L. Losey, SOCAFRICA’s commander, conveyed an order to Lieutenant Colonel Gibson to
remain in Tripoli to defend Americans there.100 Rear Admiral Losey said he was concerned
about the possibility of follow-on attacks in Tripoli or a potential for attempts at hostage
taking.101 Preferring to move, however, Lieutenant Colonel Gibson told the committee he was
“visibly upset” at the time.102 But, Rear Admiral Losey explained to the committee that it was
rooted in his belief that Lieutenant Colonel Gibson’s team was “the only military element . . . in
Tripoli that had any security experience whatsoever” and “it seemed prudent” to divide the few
military personnel in Libya between Tripoli and Benghazi rather than concentrate them in one
location
It was a Libyan army unit that escorted the Americans to the Airport in Benghazi. American Units with the ability to do that were still hours away.
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