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Old 08-02-2014, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,222 posts, read 19,225,735 times
Reputation: 14918

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
Yeah the value and protection of liberty, freedom, rights, prosperity ect are worth so little compared to a view point that is so highly subjective.

Morality or Border Security?
Morality or Gas Prices?
Morality or School Vouchers?
Morality or The Economy?
Morality or Liberty?
Morality or Personal Rights?

It is so clear which have more value....
Morality. Period, end of sentence.
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Old 08-02-2014, 10:34 AM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,977,520 times
Reputation: 7315
Just one non negotiable one. As a public leader, you understand "We, the People" is NOT "I, the individual". You always vote for the greater good of society over either my individual or any group of people's interest, if supporting either would be going against the greater good of general society. I abhor NIMBY candidates, and used to remind State Reps I knew "You are the rep of the State of ____ from the town of _____", you are NOT a "town of ____" rep first and foremost.
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Old 08-02-2014, 10:39 AM
 
13,305 posts, read 7,875,111 times
Reputation: 2144
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk View Post
The purpose of government is to defend the individual rights and liberties of the citizen, and nothing else.
Sorry, but as you well know, individuals are minorities.
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Old 08-02-2014, 10:44 AM
 
13,305 posts, read 7,875,111 times
Reputation: 2144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleidd View Post
I do not trust federal bureaucrats . .
Fateral bureaucrats.
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Old 08-02-2014, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,753,051 times
Reputation: 9330
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
  • Affirm and promote the inherent worth and dignity of every person;
  • Affirm and promote compassion in human relations;
  • Affirm and promote acceptance of one another;
  • Affirm and promote each person's own unfettered and responsible search for truth and meaning;
  • Affirm and promote the right of conscience and the use of the democratic process in society at large;
  • Affirm and promote justice for all;
  • Affirm and promote respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

In other words: Morality over more petty concerns.
That is a totally useless list. It's like saying "I support motherhood and apple pie".
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:13 AM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,074 posts, read 10,711,454 times
Reputation: 8798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
That is a totally useless list.
To anyone trying to rationalize immoral behavior they want to engage in without repudiation.
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Pensacola, Florida
2,125 posts, read 1,482,476 times
Reputation: 557
I'm for football every night on TV. Does that make me a racist or a bigot?
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,377,888 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
I'd say more anarcho-capitalist actually. I think I misunderstood the second part of your post at first...but I do completely agree on coercion, and with your last example. I was thinking of copyright laws when I was reading it and think we shouldn't have them.
I fall into anarcho-capitalist as well. It's tough sometimes falling into the coercion trap myself. I'm sure you can relate. We've been brainwashed for so long.

Yes, no copyrights or patents. A human being can't own an idea or way of doing something when it's entirely possible another person can come up with the idea/solution on his own.

The devil is in the details. There's either left libertarianism (us) or right libertarianism (I think Volobjectarian leans here).

The government as we know it is force: dead wrong and immoral. Smaller voluntary organizations can serve as a "referee" (as Volobjectarian described).

Any hierarchical institution given power to mediate/whatever must first and foremost...and this is not up for debate...be easily disabled/neutered by the people if they so wish. In fact, the people must constantly, to the point of obsession, scrutinize the entity.

Of course we know that is a far cry from the illegitimate bloated crime syndicate known as our government today.
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:29 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,973,518 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Not at all, but I understand that you too must consistently dupe yourself into thinking good is evil and evil is good to rationalize the patently self-serving avarice that you consider an ethic.
Not at all.

I know clearly what is good and what is evil.

Evil is someone believing they are good and thus entitled to force others to conform to their vision.
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:33 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,973,518 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
  • Affirm and promote the inherent worth and dignity of every person;
  • Affirm and promote compassion in human relations;
  • Affirm and promote acceptance of one another;
  • Affirm and promote each person's own unfettered and responsible search for truth and meaning;
  • Affirm and promote the right of conscience and the use of the democratic process in society at large;
  • Affirm and promote justice for all;
  • Affirm and promote respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

In other words: Morality over more petty concerns.
\

The topic, which I think you failed to understand, is about governance, and what it should do.

Your argument is that governance should be about morality - YOUR version of morality.

The problem with this, is that government is about force. Brute, unrelenting and violent force.

You can't do good with unaccountable force enforcing what fallible people (politicians, the second most corrupt, next to academicians) think everyone else should do.
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