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Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,621 posts, read 12,733,455 times
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if we could have stayed for another 70 years Iraq would be a roaring democracy after all the old timers died out. only 70 years and we would have had it in the bag..
If Iraq had WMD's in 2003, they don't now. There was regime change. If notions of 'freedom' and 'democracy' hadn't been tacked on as a justification, the war was a win. When ISIS controls Iraq, the U.S. gov't will have to come up with a different way to promote regime change.
How could taking out a regime, with no plan afterwards of how to fill the inevitable power vacuum that would result, ever be considered a win? Taking out Saddam gave us ISIS. They wouldn't be in Iraq right now without Bush's incredibly short-sighted invasion to begin with. Doesn't look like a win to me.
We went there looking for WMDs, and realized they didn't have any, so we left. Going there was nothing less thn the biggest foreign policy mistake this country has ever seen.
If Iraq had WMD's in 2003, they don't now. There was regime change. If notions of 'freedom' and 'democracy' hadn't been tacked on as a justification, the war was a win. When ISIS controls Iraq, the U.S. gov't will have to come up with a different way to promote regime change.
How about we stop doing that. When were we chosen to save the world from tyrants? True there are times when we should use military power for good but Iraq was not one of those cases and the mess that Iraq is today is much of our doing. We need to stay out of other countries affairs, especially the middle-east where they have been fighting and killing each other for thousands of years and from the looks of things across the region it looks as if they will still be at it a thousand years from now.
What's appalling is that the U.S. invaded a sovereign nation for no reason. That anyone expected a good outcome (we will be greeted as liberators!!) is inane. There was never anything this administration could have done to salvage the mess that was created by the previous administration. At some point, we were going to have to leave, and what we left behind was always going to be chaos. If you believe otherwise, you are beyond help.
I agree and our ME policies have caused a lot of blow back.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,400,252 times
Reputation: 40736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Losing? I didn't know it was ours.
We went there looking for WMDs, and realized they didn't have any, so we left. Going there was nothing less thn the biggest foreign policy mistake this country has ever seen.
I'd have to vote Vietnam as this country's biggest foreign policy blunder but the Iraq invasion/occupation certainly seems a strong 2nd.
How about we stop doing that. When were we chosen to save the world from tyrants? True there are times when we should use military power for good but Iraq was not one of those cases and the mess that Iraq is today is much of our doing. We need to stay out of other countries affairs, especially the middle-east where they have been fighting and killing each other for thousands of years and from the looks of things across the region it looks as if they will still be at it a thousand years from now.
I'm all for stopping using military power as a way to supposedly bring 'democracy' or 'freedom' elsewhere.
But to proclaim the Iraq war a failure ignores the two objectives Bush along with many D's used before the war. Rid Iraq of WMD's and Hussein. Done, even if no WMD's were there to begin with.
We should leave the next go-round to the Mideast nations themselves.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,400,252 times
Reputation: 40736
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama
I'm all for stopping using military power as a way to supposedly bring 'democracy' or 'freedom' elsewhere.
But to proclaim the Iraq war a failure ignores the two objectives Bush along with many D's used before the war. Rid Iraq of WMD's and Hussein. Done, even if no WMD's were there to begin with.
We should leave the next go-round to the Mideast nations themselves.
Perhaps not a failure as much as an unnecessary war of choice.
I have yet to see a rational explanation of why the ouster of Saddam should have been a priority post 9/11 when even Cheney made a great dog & pony show of proclaiming Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks on our country.
They were doing so good Saddam was going to start trading oil in Something other than US dollars. That would have left about $5 trillion US dollars floating around without a home. Sure Sr. wasn't counting on that.
Then cite that as a reason for war and let the chips fall where they fall. If the American people support it, then go to war. If they don't, you can either go to war anyway and deal with the consequences electorally or don't do it and let the American people suffer the consequences of not defending the dollar. Don't dream up some bull about WMD based on the worst intel on the planet.
What happened when there was a vacuum in Afghanistan?
Iraq is a lost cause but it didn't have to be. Now all of the money and lives are simply gone with pretty much nothing to show for it except AQ 6.0 (ISIS) running rampant through the country gathering up resources and capital.
IDK, what could possibly go wrong?
Two different countries...two different ethnic groups.
Al Qaeda didn't attack us because there was a vacuum in Afghanistan...they attacked us because they see us as meddling in Arab affairs, and because we had troops on Saudi soil.
I don't care what hands Iraq falls into, it's of no consequence to us. It's a lost cause because once we entered it it HAD TO BE a lost cause. There was never any chance of American success there.
When will you guys ever get it that we suck as occupiers? We don't know what the hell we're doing in the Arab world. We don't understand the culture, the religion, and we have few people that can even speak Arabic well.
And frankly, the Ugly American routine (which is exactly how we behaved in Iraq) doesn't go over well in that part of the world.
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