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So, you think someone working 40 hours a week doesn't deserve to eat?
Someone who works 40 hours a week deserves to be paid for 40 hours of work, what they do with the money is up to them. Far to many people waste their income and then expect government to carry them. If someone would rather smoke and booze than eat that's up to them.
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Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
Are you ever going to answer my questions or just deflect with strawman arguments?
Do you think a full-time worker should be paid enough to feed their children? Yes or no?
They should be paid for the job, period. If their job is wearing a sandwich board and handing out flyers on the street corner then they're not likely to be paid enough to support a family and they should get a better job, or work 2 of them. If there aren't better jobs then they should move where there are better jobs.
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Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
You believe a full-time worker should have some sort of elitist skillset to feed his family. Everyone who works eats. Period. This isn't a fuedal society.
No a full time worker should have some sort of skillset, period. You can't expect to feed a family doing a job that a vending machine can do. If someone doesn't put in the minimum effort to gain SOME kind of valuable skill why should I pay them?
So you think children should be forced to work now? How progressive of you. Or are you now trying to say that every job should pay enough to support the worker and a dependent? Or is it 2 dependents? Or 3?
Even a minimum wage job pays enough for room and board for one person. It won't be luxury but it's MINIMUM wage. You seem to have this idea that minimum wage now should be enough to support a family.
Why do you think that you should have to pay for someone else who isn't carrying their own weight and producing more value than they consume? How many hours a week are you willing to work for free? Or like most libs are you being generous with other peoples money?
There are millions of good jobs out there if people were willing to put in some effort to do them. Effort meaning take the time to gain skills worth paying for and effort to go where the jobs are. If they aren't willing to do that why should I pay for them? Profoundly Disconnected
Someone who works 40 hours a week deserves to be paid for 40 hours of work, what they do with the money is up to them. Far to many people waste their income and then expect government to carry them. If someone would rather smoke and booze than eat that's up to them.
Yeah. $1,200 / month - rock and roll, baby
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon
They should be paid for the job, period. If their job is wearing a sandwich board and handing out flyers on the street corner then they're not likely to be paid enough to support a family and they should get a better job, or work 2 of them. If there aren't better jobs then they should move where there are better jobs.
And why not? A job is a job. If someone is doing it and paid, it means this job is necessary.
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Originally Posted by Haakon
No a full time worker should have some sort of skillset, period. You can't expect to feed a family doing a job that a vending machine can do.
If a vending machine could do it these jobs would not exists....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon
If someone doesn't put in the minimum effort to gain SOME kind of valuable skill why should I pay them?
Who is to say which skill is valuable and which is not? Movie stars get paid more than neurosurgeons. Football players more than Nobel prize winners who work on breakthrough drugs. Is throwing a ball and running more valuable skills than 2 PhDs and 250 publications in 14 languages?
Nonsense and more nonsense. Our conservatives are simply morally corrupt.
Its the conservatives fault that the NFL and other leagues are multi billion dollar industries??? or is it the people who support it? Is it because there is maybe .01% of the population who are actually professional athletes. Could it be possible that the average span for an athlete is less than 5 years, and many of them suffer debilitating injuries and must rely on those 3-5 years of pay for the rest of their lives? There is revenue that supports the pay. There is not revenue in FF to support high pay.
Please tell me this is not your new arguement.
But here, you just acknowledged that someone with a PhD is more "valuable" than an athlete, is that not true for non skilled workers as well? Is a Doctor not more valuable? Is a paramedic not more valuable? Skilled trade workers??? This is why they get paid more! Sports does not fit in to the typical business model in any way.
But here, you just acknowledged that someone with a PhD is more "valuable" than an athlete, is that not true for non skilled workers as well? Is a Doctor not more valuable? Is a paramedic not more valuable? Skilled trade workers??? This is why they get paid more! .
Yes. I agree and think that only PhDs and medical doctors should have houses and eat dinners, the rest of the uneducated, low-skilled labor force should starve. if they want to eat they should start working on their dissertations.
I said that once some math is done, you need to make choices. $300 left over for everything past rent, utilities and food isn't a whole lot. The individual must now choose how life is going to go.
Work more hours, make more money.
Get better at job, be more valuable, make more money.
Get educated, gain skills, make more money.
Get additional job, make more money.
Make wise spending choices, spend less money.
Make wise personal choices, spend less money.
I assume nothing, but I am aware of the myriad choices in life that can and do allow people to sink or swim as they CHOOSE.
And you guys always throw in the "emergency" thing, like every last welfare junkie or minimum wage sloth was hit by a bolt of lightning or has some debilitating disease. That's not even remotely close to true. All of the above choices I list are all excellent ways to prepare for emergencies. Really. And things like wife/kids/drug habit/medical_conditions_caused_by_personal_stupidity are all voluntary externalities. You choose to have these things in your life, thus I equate them with luxuries unnecessary to survival.
And you crack me up with appeals to emotion like "starvation wages". I was being generous at $10 per day, because you can eat a nutritious 1500-1800 calories per day for about $4 if you have an IQ higher than room temperature. Everyone should drink more water, and water is free if you can find yourself a water fountain and have one 32oz sport jug.
Only assumption I made originally is "can you live" and yeah, you can live just fine. Not luxuriously, certainly not worry free, but minimum wage @40 hours per week can indeed provide for survival.
In a small town, probably. Certainly not high priced areas like DC and new york.
Yes. I agree and think that only PhDs and medical doctors should have houses and eat dinners, the rest of the uneducated, low-skilled labor force should starve. if they want to eat they should start working on their dissertations.
Wait. Youre telling me 200-300 a week is not enough to feed oneself? Hah!
And a house is a luxury. Nothing wrong with an apartment. You do NOT need to be paid 40-60k or face starvation and if you think that then you should take a budget course. And if the low earners start making that kind of money then the people currently making 40-60 will be expecting 75+
Still waiting for your reasoning that its the conservative fault athletes are paid millions.
If people are not content with the money they make...then you are absolutely right they should strive to improve their position and chances. Not sit with their hands out waiting.
Can unsubsidized burger flippers afford to live there?
I'm guessing rents there have necessarily skyrocketed what with the oil workers and all.
Perhaps only Subsidy Kids living with mommy and daddy can afford to live there and flip burgers?
It's $1200 for a 2 bedroom.
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Originally Posted by workingclasshero
and meanwhile in reality...at a majority of the rent goes to.....PROPERTY TAX.....
but you REFUSE to admit it
sorry you cant handle the truth
Not where I live. In Chicago rent is charged at market rates and usually far exceeds the property tax. The place I looked at last month had a property tax of $5000/yr and a $300/month HOA fee, but would rent for about $3000/month.
Someone who works 40 hours a week deserves to be paid for 40 hours of work, what they do with the money is up to them. Far to many people waste their income and then expect government to carry them. If someone would rather smoke and booze than eat that's up to them.
Strawman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon
They should be paid for the job, period. If their job is wearing a sandwich board and handing out flyers on the street corner then they're not likely to be paid enough to support a family and they should get a better job, or work 2 of them. If there aren't better jobs then they should move where there are better jobs.
That is not acceptable according the FSLA, which was pushed by the people because they were sick of working 60+ hour weeks for starvation wages. Are we moving back in time, conservatives?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon
No a full time worker should have some sort of skillset, period. You can't expect to feed a family doing a job that a vending machine can do. If someone doesn't put in the minimum effort to gain SOME kind of valuable skill why should I pay them?
Because money changing hands is how the economy works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon
So you think children should be forced to work now? How progressive of you. Or are you now trying to say that every job should pay enough to support the worker and a dependent? Or is it 2 dependents? Or 3?
Where did I say that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon
Even a minimum wage job pays enough for room and board for one person. It won't be luxury but it's MINIMUM wage. You seem to have this idea that minimum wage now should be enough to support a family.
Actually, it doesn't pay enough room and board. Yes, it should be enough to support a family. That's why it exists. People had to work 60+ hours per week (and their children had to work) to feed their family. Are we moving back in time?!?!?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon
Why do you think that you should have to pay for someone else who isn't carrying their own weight and producing more value than they consume? How many hours a week are you willing to work for free? Or like most libs are you being generous with other peoples money?
They are working for an income. Why do they deserve to starve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon
There are millions of good jobs out there if people were willing to put in some effort to do them. Effort meaning take the time to gain skills worth paying for and effort to go where the jobs are. If they aren't willing to do that why should I pay for them? Profoundly Disconnected
Honestly, I don't understand why the middle class has to always step up to the plate. Why is it our burden to pay for food stamps and other programs when corporations could easily pay their employees a livable wage. I can't afford it, they can. Just look at costco. They pay very well with good benefits. The ceo makes no where near what other ceo's make but he could if he wanted. How many millions do you need in your pocket while your employees are struggling to make ends meet.
Honestly, I don't understand why the middle class has to always step up to the plate. Why is it our burden to pay for food stamps and other programs when corporations could easily pay their employees a livable wage. I can't afford it, they can. Just look at costco. They pay very well with good benefits. The ceo makes no where near what other ceo's make but he could if he wanted. How many millions do you need in your pocket while your employees are struggling to make ends meet.
Corporations will never play fair. They are people with more money than you. Why play fair when you can lobby the government?
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