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Old 09-17-2014, 11:49 PM
 
16,664 posts, read 8,667,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Any other Progs feel the same way?
It all depends on how one defines progressive.

Rest assured TR would not approve of many of the things todays progressives promote. As a matter of fact, todays progressives would disgust TR, and he would be attacked by their new religion of political correctness.
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:02 AM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,262,149 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
It all depends on how one defines progressive.

Rest assured TR would not approve of many of the things todays progressives promote. As a matter of fact, todays progressives would disgust TR, and he would be attacked by their new religion of political correctness.
Yeah. Uh huh. Right. For sure. No doubt. Affirmative. Most definitely. Whatever you say.

I need some Aleve right about now.
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,220 posts, read 22,424,843 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesjuke View Post
I oft wonder why Pearl Harbor was never notified the known attack was coming.
It was a Sunday.
There were other reasons, but mostly it was due to the day of the week. 73 years ago, everything shut down on Sundays, even in all the most critical communication offices. There was always a person or two on duty, but world-wide, communications stopped on Sundays.

That, in part, was why the Japanese chose that day to attack.

Intelligence messages were eventually sent to Hawaii, but by the time they were read, the attack was nearly over. The Foreign Intelligence office had many warnings of an attack, but none had a specific time except for the Japanese military traffic that occurred 24 hours before the attack. The Japanese were very careful to restrict their broadcasts, but other sightings of their fleet were also reported.

It's hard to imagine now how communications were back then; compared to today, even the best were sketchy as to reception and many were still being transmitted in Morse code for long distance transmission. The distances in the Pacific war plagued our command throughout the length of the war, as many vital messages were never received.
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:09 AM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 6,000,043 times
Reputation: 2479
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesjuke View Post
I oft wonder why Pearl Harbor was never notified the known attack was coming.

United States Forces in the Pacific (Hawaii, Guam, Midway Is Wake Is, The Canal Zone, The Phillipines and Alaska) were all given a war alert when negotiations between the United States and the Japanese Empire broke down about a week before Pearl Harbor was attacked. It was up to Theater Commanders like Admiral Kimmel CincPac, General Short (Commander US Army and Army Air Forces in Hawaii) and Gen MacArthur in Manila The Phillipines to respond as they saw fit (ie. increase combat readiness, disperse forces, man key points, send out air or sea reconisance and in the case of Pearl Harbor expedite the commissioning of a new technology system recently delivered to the US Forces called radar). That War with Japan was coming was no surprise and explains why the US Navy had moved all eight US Battleships in the Pacific from their homeports on the West coast to Pearl Harbor where they sat all close together in a relatively shallow bay halfway to Japan. This was the first part of a Plan the United States Navy called Orange which was a planned war on Japan. It might have worked in the 1920s when it was drafted before the IJN had aircraft carriers!
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:28 AM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 6,000,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
It all depends on how one defines progressive.

Rest assured TR would not approve of many of the things todays progressives promote. As a matter of fact, todays progressives would disgust TR, and he would be attacked by their new religion of political correctness.

You forget that todays TR would have been born in 1958 instead or 1858 and grown up in the 1960s and 70s during the Vietnam War rather than the Civil War. The music of his youth would have been The Beatles Led Zeppelin, Elton John or Bruce Springsteen or even Alice Cooper! Instead of the corruption of Gen Grant's Presidency it would have been Mr Nixon. The young contemporary Teddy might have attended and Earth Day Rally, watched the Great ships sail into New York Harbor in 1976 or was glued to the TV when Apollo 11 reached the Moon. So I wouldn't be so sure that TR wouldn't be one of the champions of political correctness. Also , when translated 50-70 years the team of FDR and ER would look a lot like Bill and Hilliary Clinton (eve the domestic arrangements)
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:40 AM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 6,000,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Agreed. But Americans of German and Italian family were NOT locked up. It was def "racism" by FDR since even the "1 drop rule" applied to White or Black people with 1/4 or more Japanese or was it 1/8 in their heritage?

Some German-Americans and Italian -Americans were locked up for the duration of the war for being enemy aliens if they were not naturalized American citizens and failed to register as an enemy aliens, were German or Italian agents or were members of groups like the German-American Bund a pro-Nazi social and political organization.
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:52 AM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 6,000,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogdad View Post
He was also a Washington Redskins fan.

TR who died on Jan 5th 1919 didn't live long enough to enjoy a Washington Redskins or any NFL game although he was no doubt aware of games like Harvard-Yale or the Princeton-Penn games. Actually during TRs Presidency a movement to ban football as being dangerous (Guys were getting killed playing the game) and ungentlemanly happened. Cooler minds prevailed and football players started to wear protective equipment and have a few more rules about hitting the other player.
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:20 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,343,977 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Taxes are nothing new.... They've been around for thousands of years.... Get over it.

Modern progressives seek to give everyone an equal chance, not make everyone equal. Big difference....
Taxes for purposes of redistributing wealth are immoral and wrong, and redistribution of wealth is a modern idea, not thousands of years old. It is an idea that came about with The "Progressive Movement" which had its origin in the second half of the 19th Century.

"Social justice" has to do with making people equal, and it had it's birth in the "Progressive Movement". What is this movement to equalize income (income equality vs. income inequality) which the "Progressives" love so much, if it is not an attempt to make people equal?

But, people already have an "equal chance" (as you put it) in our country as founded. Nothing needs to be changed for anyone to have equal opportunity.

Our American system of government, as founded, maximizes Liberty. This Liberty is what gave rise to the "rugged individualism" that made our country the richest nation with the highest standard of living in the history of the world.

You are completely wrong, and have no understanding of "Progressivism" and "Progressives."

Progressives do not believe in individualism. They reject the Founder's ideas of "limited government" and of natural "inalienable" rights. They reject the Constitution as a document relevant for all time, but insist that it must be a "living document," because government is a "living thing." (Ref. John Dewy, "Liberalism and Social Action", and Woodrow Wilson, "What is Progress?")
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:26 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
37,803 posts, read 41,074,974 times
Reputation: 62205
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
Absolutely. I've said for years that we need another Teddy. Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are as close as we have seen in a long time. I'm itching for them to run for the White House.

T.R. was the last real Capital-"R" Republican. There are no more genuine conservatives in the GOP. What a sad bunch the Neopubs are in comparison to the giants they had at one time.
Teddy Roosevelt wasn't conservative but he was a Republican so what is wrong in your statement is the "no more" part.

"Progressives of both parties, including Roosevelt, were the original big-government liberals. They understood full well that the greatest obstacle to their schemes of social justice and equality of material condition was the U.S. Constitution as it was originally written and understood: as creating a national government of limited, enumerated powers that was dedicated to securing the individual natural rights of its citizens, especially liberty of contract and private property."

http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB123033881006136515
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:29 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,343,977 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
I'd like to hear what you think E Warren or Sanders actually would do that will benefit this country. I hear Warren talk constantly of fairness and citing skewed data (just as skewed in an opposite direction by Limbaugh). The only thing I have heard her talk about that I can agree with is that our financial markets are probably under regulated.

Sanders? Oh my. I'm surprised that he didn't try to take his yes vote for the auto bailout into federal takeover of the industry.
I would sooner trust Rush Limbaugh's sources any day of the week to any data spewed by the likes of uber "Progressive," Elizabeth "You didn't build that" Warren.
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