Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Status:
"everybody getting reported now.."
(set 26 days ago)
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,573 posts, read 16,556,695 times
Reputation: 6044
Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon
Because you are choosing to be narrow sighted on purpose to defend your original fictitious point.
Paul O'Neil said Large Deficits matter, because they in the long run are creating unsustainable interest payments from a large debt. Cheney said deficits don't matter and dismissed the entire point that O'Neil made including a large national debt making a Fiscal Crisis loom on the horizon. Deficits and Debt are connected at the hip - especially with the point being made by O'Neil and dismissed by Cheney. According to Paul O'Neill who Cheney's quote comes from - Cheney dismissed the large national debt itself and the increasing interest payments.
Im not arguing to persurve my view, you are the one who wanted to debate Cheney's quote, thats what you talked about in the OP, not O'neil's
And your own statement agrees with mine about what Cheney meant. He dismissed both notions of debt and deficit by your count.
Quote:
You have never argued in good faith - you always spin for Obama. You point blank lied to me in the past about a politifact link to defend Obama. Your premise is Obama uber alles and then you *** saw your position from there.
I didnt lie, you outright misquoted politifact, i then linked you to the site and proved you wrong, but try again.
its been a year and we are still having this debate about you lying and politifact, sad really.
Quote:
You told me that Obama was one in the same...no...you are looking at the world with a very simplistic mind...there are shades of gray.
Candidate Obama Version 2008 =/= President Obama Version 2014.
He is one in the same, did he grow a clone in a science lab ? If not then he is the same, he stances changed because the circumstances did.
Are you arguing that his stances should stay the same regardless of the situation ?????
Quote:
You are the one distorting.
I am the one using consistently REAL DEFICITS ACCRUED in reality.
You are the one pushing the false narrative that Bush inherited a surplus - when you know it was a projected surplus that didn't pan out - you are lying.
I distorted nothing.
If you want to argue " real deficits" then you need to do it for every year, and if you do, then every Obama deficit has been lower than the last Bush one.
But we were arguing budget deficits, and Bush indeed inherited a budget surplus. That isnt a false narrative its a fact, you simply wanted to argue a different perspective, and again, im fine with that, but you are going to do it for every year if you do.
I agree with the definition of Candidate Obama Version 2008. Continuing Resolutions are a good way to distort true spending as it is "off budget" and gets lost in the shuffle. That is why Candidate Obama Version 2008 and I both oppose Continuing Resolutions for non-emergencies and the like and that is why Candidate Obama Version 2008 pledged not to do them and he and I both oppose President Obama Versions 2009 through 2014.
The definition of a deficit is the ACTUAL real life number that the debt grows during a Fiscal Year.
Candidate Obama Version 2008 and I both agree that it was deception by Bush and congress to use so many CRs, which distorted the true deficit. That is why I also dislike President Obama Versions 2009 through 2014 for having used CRs more than Bush himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Projected? How about actual?
Actual total revenue was 5.7 trillion, and total expenses were 6.1.
Federal revenue was 3.0 and federal expenses were 3.5.
Where do you get 1.1 trillion difference? You are looking at numbers, and you do not understand what they mean.
As Candidate Obama Version 2008 would point out you've been duped by dishonest politicians.
Per the federal government the national debt rose $1.1 Trillion in Fiscal Year 2014 (Oct. 1st 2013 through Sept. 30th 2014).
Im not arguing to persurve my view, you are the one who wanted to debate Cheney's quote, thats what you talked about in the OP, not O'neil's
And your own statement agrees with mine about what Cheney meant. He dismissed both notions of debt and deficit by your count.
I didnt lie, you outright misquoted politifact, i then linked you to the site and proved you wrong, but try again.
its been a year and we are still having this debate about you lying and politifact, sad really.
He is one in the same, did he grow a clone in a science lab ? If not then he is the same, he stances changed because the circumstances did.
Are you arguing that his stances should stay the same regardless of the situation ?????
I distorted nothing.
If you want to argue " real deficits" then you need to do it for every year, and if you do, then every Obama deficit has been lower than the last Bush one.
But we were arguing budget deficits, and Bush indeed inherited a budget surplus. That isnt a false narrative its a fact, you simply wanted to argue a different perspective, and again, im fine with that, but you are going to do it for every year if you do.
Quit pulling an Obama.
You didn't even know the context of the quote as Cheney also said the debt and interest payments weren't a problem per O'Neill. It is just O'Neill's quote of Cheney on deficits is what stood out to the media as that is what Bush and congress has more control over in the now as opposed to future interest payments on a large debt. I was 100% right in my comment that you tried to correct without having a clue.
Sorry - Obama criticized Bush for having lobbyists in key WH positions and has since out Bushed Bush on it.
You are distorting. You are repeating a false mirage - you know Bush didn't inherit a surplus, but rather a projected one that wasn't going to come true at all, but you have no problem repeating the BS.
I and even Candidate Obama Version 2008 focus on real deficits.
Oh and you already know for a fact that Obama increased spending in FY 2009 so he owns much of that year - subtract out Obama's spending of FY 2009 - and where does FY 2014's $1.1 Trillion deficit rank to Bush's pathetic years?
So you are saying that Obama was a fear monger on the national debt in 2008 spreading false propaganda and that you agree with Dick Cheney that the deficits do not matter?
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Did you have trouble reading my post?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
National debt is not a credit card. Both parties lie.
National debt is currency that has been created. Debt is money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xboxmas
Of course, in the liberals eyes its Bush's fault.
Not this liberal. Both parties use the miseducation of debt to push their own agenda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volta Fiori
Sounds like Economics for the Mentally-Incompetent 101.
Sounds like you are subsituting an ad hominem for lack of argument. My post was not an opinion. National debt is money.
I think the biggest problem is the fact that people simply do not know how the government works. They think everything is about the presidents, and they couldn't be more wrong.
When a corporation fails, the CEO is blamed. Board members are not blamed as much as the CEO.
First of all, you are the one that needs to be educated. You questioned the fact that Fiscal Year 2014 saw the national debt rise by $1.1 Trillion, the Total Deficit for FY 2014 was $1.1 Trillion. You also needed to ask for links when there were already government website links in this thread proving the $1.1 Trillion growth in national debt during FY 2014.
You questioned reality, because your shepherd, President Obama, deceived you with a $450 Billion deficit figure, which is BS to fool the sheep in the flock. Candidate Obama Version 2008 said as much - that politicians use CRs outside of the budget to obfuscate the real deficit to hide it from the public and look better.
Second of all, you are wrong. Yes it is.
Total Deficit = Total expenses - Total receipts (income)
As Candidate Obama Version 2008 pointed out, dishonest politicians will have CRs and other gimmicks to put expenses NOT in the budget to make the deficit appear smaller. So the media talks about the deficit when only looking at the budget -- the "budget deficit" -- not fully comprehending that large expenses are deliberately happening outside of the official budget, but which are real and making the deficit worse.
Using your "logic" if you want to call it that...you would argue that Tom is running a surplus:
Tom's Finances...
All Income Combined: $100K
All expenses listed in the budget: $90K
All expenses made not listed in the Budget: $30K
Finn_Jarber and dishonest politicians would argue that there is a $10K Surplus, just look at that "paper" budget!!!
Candidate Obama Version 2008 and myself would argue there is a $20K Deficit just look at "reality."
Cool story. In the United Stated government the Congress has the power of the purse.
Tell that to Democrats that keep pointing out deficits by president in regards to Bush and Reagan.
If you compare deficits by party controlling congress - when a party controls both houses of congress - Democrats deficit spend 4 times as much as when Republicans control both houses per congressional session going back 40 years.
Fact is, both parties got us here and presidents do have some control over the budget as they have to sign the expenses or let congress try to override the veto.
Meanwhile dishonest politicians are claiming that the deficit has shrunk when in FY 2014 it was $1.1 Trillion - and sheep buy it - party over reality!
First of all, you are the one that needs to be educated. You questioned the fact that Fiscal Year 2014 saw the national debt rise by $1.1 Trillion, the Total Deficit for FY 2014 was $1.1 Trillion. You also needed to ask for links when there were already government website links in this thread proving the $1.1 Trillion growth in national debt during FY 2014.
I did not question the debt, nor did I ask for links. I asked you to define deficit, and I pointed out that you do not understand what a deficit is. Your comments prove I was right.
Quote:
You questioned reality, because your shepherd, President Obama, deceived you......
It never fails. You try to get personal every time you have been proven wrong. It only confirms you have lost.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
