National Debt rises by $98 Billion on last day of 2014, debt up by $790 Billion for 2014 (house of representatives, Congress)

[michiganmoon]

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...-1814-trillion

"The problem is, is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion dollars for the first 42 presidents — number 43 added $4 trillion dollars by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion dollars of debt that we are going to have to pay back — $30,000 for every man, woman and child.
That’s irresponsible. It’s unpatriotic."

***Followed by Applause that breaks out into a Yes We Can Chant***

[Opin_Yunated]

National debt is not a credit card. Both parties lie.

National debt is currency that has been created. Debt is money.

Have fun making up "national debt" fearmongering threads for the next 200 years. The debt will not be reduced. Get over it.

[michiganmoon]

Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated

National debt is not a credit card. Both parties lie.

National debt is currency that has been created. Debt is money.

Have fun making up "national debt" fearmongering threads for the next 200 years. The debt will not be reduced. Get over it.

So you are saying that Obama was a fear monger on the national debt in 2008 spreading false propaganda and that you agree with Dick Cheney that the deficits do not matter?

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by michiganmoon

So you are saying that Obama was a fear monger on the national debt in 2008 spreading false propaganda and that you agree with Dick Cheney that the deficits do not matter?

deficit=/=debt

that being said, answer your own question.

Was Cheney right, or was Obama. Now, i believe the situation is far more complex than that especially considering the deficit has fallen under Obama where as Bush started with a Budget surplus, but you posed the fallacy of a question, so how about you answer it.

[michiganmoon]

Originally Posted by dsjj251

deficit=/=debt

Apparently you need more context. Cheney's deficits don't matter quote was in regard to the piling up of the national debt. Deficits build debt.

Originally Posted by dsjj251

Was Cheney right, or was Obama.

Which Obama? Obama spins more than a merry go round.

Dick Cheney is wrong. Candidate Obama Version 2008 was far more correct than Cheney.

Originally Posted by dsjj251

Now, i believe the situation is far more complex than that especially considering the deficit has fallen under Obama where as Bush started with a Budget surplus, but you posed the fallacy of a question, so how about you answer it.

There never was a true surplus under Clinton or Bush. The national debt has increased every single Fiscal Year since 1957. Also the supposed surplus that Bush inherited was a rosy projection that wouldn't have been true if Gore or the Easter Bunny had won in 2000. You are repeating lies.

To your point, the national debt did accelerate its growth under Bush - from the actions of Bush and congress -- and the actions of previous presidents and congress' - including Clinton.

Bush was a poor president and Dick Cheney was a poor vice president.


Has the deficit really decreased under Obama? Fiscal Year 2014 (Oct. 1st 2013 to Sept. 30th 2014) saw the national debt rise by $1.1 Trillion - bigger than Bush's deficits. You can applaud President Obama for shrinking the paper budget deficits - but Candidate Obama and I are shaking our heads at you two. As Candidate Obama pointed out, using Continuing Resolutions is a way to deceive the public as to the real growing deficit as expenses aren't in the "budget" that gets talked about. That is why Candidate Obama pledge not to do Continuing Resolutions and blasted Bush for using them. It is too bad that President Obama out-Bushed Bush on Continuing Resolutions in his first 2 years with a Democrat controlled Senate and House.

[xboxmas]

Of course, in the liberals eyes its Bush's fault.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by dsjj251

deficit=/=debt

that being said, answer your own question.

Was Cheney right, or was Obama. Now, i believe the situation is far more complex than that especially considering the deficit has fallen under Obama where as Bush started with a Budget surplus, but you posed the fallacy of a question, so how about you answer it.

deficit=/=debt

correct but deficits do add to the debt, if not paid off

Was Cheney right

cheney said DEFICITS don't matter when they are small and controllable

especially considering the deficit has fallen under Obama

uhm..the deficits have NOT fallen under Obama....he has had trillion dollar deficits every year except one

LOOK AT THE NUMBERS
10/01/2009................................ 11,920,519,164,319.42
09/30/2010................................ 13,561,623,030,891.79
1,641,103,866,572............................1.6 trillion deficit fy10

10/01/2010.................................13,610,847,58 5,810.09
09/30/2011.................................14,790,340,32 8,557.15
1,179,492,742,747...........................1.17tr illion deficit fy11

09/30/2011................................ 14,790,340,328,557.15
09/28/2012................................ 16,066,241,407,385.89
1,275,901,078,828..........................1.27 trillion deficit fy12

10/01/2012.................................16,159,487,01 3,300.35
09/30/2013.................................16,738,183,52 6,697.32
578,696,513,397..............................578 billion deficit fy13......the only year under one trillion

10/01/2013................................. 16,747,478,675,335.18
09/30/2014................................. 17,824,071,380,733.82
1,076,592,705,398..............................1.0 7 trillion deficit fy14 which just ended

1.6 trillion DEFICIT
1.17 trillion DEFICIT
1.27 trillion DEFICIT
578 Billion DEFICIT (the only year under a trillion since fy09)
1.07 Trillion DEFICIT (this last fy that ended 65 days ago )


http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current .....................link

Bush started with a Budget surplus

no he didn't

here is the 4 years that they claim had a surplus
Fiscal
Year........ YearEnding.... ..National Debt........Annual budget Deficit

FY1998..... 09/30/1998.... $5.526193 trillion...... $113.05 billion
FY1999..... 09/30/1999.... $5.656270 trillion...... $130.08 billion
FY2000..... 09/29/2000.... $5.674178 trillion...... $17.91 billion
FY2001..... 09/28/2001.... $5.877463 trillion...... $133.29 billion


so endeth the myth of the Clinton surplus

a spent projected surplus is not a surplus

the fact is the democats have added 10 trillion in debt since they took over in 06..... we are currently at 18 trillion in debt....more than our entire yearly gdp........

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by michiganmoon

Apparently you need more context. Cheney's deficits don't matter quote was in regard to the piling up of the national debt. Deficits build debt.

no it wasnt, it was about that years budget deficit.

Which Obama? Obama spins more than a merry go round.

THere is no which Obama, the world is not so black and white as to the answer to a question always being the same.

There never was a true surplus under Clinton or Bush. The national debt has increased every single Fiscal Year since 1957. Also the supposed surplus that Bush inherited was a rosy projection that wouldn't have been true if Gore or the Easter Bunny had won in 2000. You are repeating lies.

To your point, the national debt did accelerate its growth under Bush - from the actions of Bush and congress -- and the actions of previous presidents and congress' - including Clinton.

Bush was a poor president and Dick Cheney was a poor vice president.


Has the deficit really decreased under Obama? Fiscal Year 2014 (Oct. 1st 2013 to Sept. 30th 2014) saw the national debt rise by $1.1 Trillion - bigger than Bush's deficits. You can applaud President Obama for shrinking the paper budget deficits - but Candidate Obama and I are shaking our heads at you two. As Candidate Obama pointed out, using Continuing Resolutions is a way to deceive the public as to the real growing deficit as expenses aren't in the "budget" that gets talked about. That is why Candidate Obama pledge not to do Continuing Resolutions and blasted Bush for using them. It is too bad that President Obama out-Bushed Bush on Continuing Resolutions in his first 2 years with a Democrat controlled Senate and House.

I never claimed there was a true surplus under Clinton, and we had this debate enough for you to know i know the difference between a budget surplus and a functional one.

DO you mind showing where you got that 1.1 trillion from, and a comparision of it to the fiscal years of 2008 to now ?

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

correct but deficits do add to the debt, if not paid off

Did someone say otherwise ?

cheney said DEFICITS don't matter when they are small and controllable

What do you define as small and controllable ????

uhm..the deficits have NOT fallen under Obama....he has had trillion dollar deficits every year except one

While your method of counting the deifcit ,based on accrued debt, meaning it could and does come form a different year, is intellectually dishonest at best(since we are talking about budget deficits), the fact that the Fiscal year of 2009 had a deficit of 1.9 trillion disproves your point even by your flawed standards.

No Obama debt has exceeded the last Bush debt.

no he didn't

Again, the word budget seems to escape you.

the fact is the democats have added 10 trillion in debt since they took over in 06..... we are currently at 18 trillion in debt....more than our entire yearly gdp........

Democrats havent controlled the House of Representatives since 2010, try again.

[michiganmoon]

Originally Posted by dsjj251

no it wasnt, it was about that years budget deficit.

No, I am right and you probably know this it is just more of your little dance you do to obfuscate.

Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neil was arguing that the high deficits were sky rocketing the national DEBT, which would create a Fiscal Crisis in the future making it hard to pay off the national debt. Paul O'Neil explains this in the movie IOUSA.

Cheney then responded that deficits don't matter. O'Neil wouldn't drop it and was then forced out of the administration.

Originally Posted by dsjj251

THere is no which Obama, the world is not so black and white as to the answer to a question always being the same.

Yes, there is a which Obama. You are the one saying the world is black and white. There are many different Obamas as he "evolves", flip flops, lies, distorts, etc. Candidate Obama Version 2008 is the Obama I was referencing that I agree with. I disagree with most of the other Obamas.

Originally Posted by dsjj251

I never claimed there was a true surplus under Clinton, and we had this debate enough for you to know i know the difference between a budget surplus and a functional one.

DO you mind showing where you got that 1.1 trillion from, and a comparision of it to the fiscal years of 2008 to now ?

So you are admitting that you are deliberately distorting? So because Obama wins liar of the year you feel as if you can distort and lie all you want to?

Hey, my neighbor had a "surplus" in his budget, too bad the vacation he took to Jamaica and the boat he bought wasn't in the budget and he racked up massive debt with that "functional BS budget."


Official Treasury website: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/r...ebt_histo5.htm

Fiscal Year 2014 racked up $1.1 Trillion in new debt - but much of the expenditures weren't in the "budget" so you can live in a fantasy land and pat Obama on the back like a good little follower. I am assuming that you will deliberately forget that most of FY 2009 was on Obama's watch and he added expenses to that reaching it higher. I am also going to assume that you will deliberately forget that Bush's TARP and bailouts were paid back under Obama's watch - including the 2013 FY, that temporarily lowered the deficit and artificially make it appear that deficit improved more than it did.