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Old 01-29-2015, 03:43 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,836,913 times
Reputation: 6509

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiannon67 View Post
Many of those poor people don't live in environments especially conducive to making those right choices.

Gang culture, anyone?
Ultimately it is the decision of those affected. Things are easier for some compared to others, that is without a doubt. But that is life, we all have to make due with the hand we are delt and have to be responsible for the decisions we make as individuals.

It seems many democrats want to give the individual a pass and blame failures on others and society. Unfortunately, taking responsibility for ones choices in life seems to be a dying trait.
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:45 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,162 posts, read 44,953,235 times
Reputation: 13741
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiannon67 View Post
I'm not ignoring anything.
You are, in fact, ignoring the reality that most billionaires EARNED their wealth. They didn't inherit it.
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Palmer/Fishhook, Alaska
1,284 posts, read 1,263,821 times
Reputation: 1974
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Ultimately it is the decision of those affected. Things are easier for some compared to others, that is without a doubt. But that is life, we all have to make due with the hand we are delt and have to be responsible for the decisions we make as individuals.

It seems many democrats want to give the individual a pass and blame failures on others and society. Unfortunately, taking responsibility for ones choices in life seems to be a dying trait.
I largely agree with everything you said, here.

Because of the situation I came from myself, I tend toward wanting to see others succeed the way I did without having to suffer some of the indignities I had to. I'll never forget where I started as a young adult, and every day I'm grateful to be where I am now.

So call me a softie, lol. But I know what you are saying
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Palmer/Fishhook, Alaska
1,284 posts, read 1,263,821 times
Reputation: 1974
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
You are, in fact, ignoring the reality that most billionaires EARNED their wealth. They didn't inherit it.
You ignored my whole post.

I wasn't discussing inheritance in that post as much as I was discussing those general advantages afforded to kids of The Upper Middle Class. I used my friend's situation to paint that picture.
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Old 01-29-2015, 04:18 PM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,407,321 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
You are, in fact, ignoring the reality that most billionaires EARNED their wealth. They didn't inherit it.
I keep seeing this...and links to Forbes usually. Forbes considers Trump (who inherited 200 million) to be a self made billionaire. Weird how it ignores the fact that it takes money to make money. Starting with 200 million doesn't strike me as earned, it just strikes me that they benefited by the massive advantages given to those at the top.

But sure, Trump earned it. yup.
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Old 01-29-2015, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,264 posts, read 27,666,911 times
Reputation: 16091
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiannon67 View Post

I have a good friend from med school; she's probably the smartest person I know, and one of the most accomplished. She comes from a culture where high achievement is expected, thus her parents are also highly accomplished, themselves. Between my friend and her husband, they surely qualify as Upper Middle Class at the very least, or higher, but they're nowhere close to Forbes level by any means.

She has one child and doesn't plan to have another. The kid gets a private education and the benefit of two highly educated parents, not to mention access to better food (they only shop whole foods), etc.

I believe this picture paints a good example of a person who wasn't born to wealth necessarily, but who certainly will enjoy many advantages along the way and is likely to wind up attending an Ivy League school, get doors opened, etc. The chance is very high he will end up at least in the same economic bracket as his parents.

Inheritance matters, yes, but so do having general advantages, as this child certainly enjoys.

Contrast that with a kid in say...a lower middle class family. Few advantages, there, and therefore a lot less likely to break into even Upper Middle Class...much less wealthy.

There's a big difference.

If you can't even admit to that much, then I give up.

Mother Teresa has once said, Charity, if it is true, MUST COST us, it does not cost to take from Peter to pay Paul.

This friend that you have will have no worries in her future because she obviously works hard and smart. I don't envy her because everybody has his or her own life destination.

I am a trust fund baby, I chose art, not medical school. I chose sports, not investment banking. I suffer from the consequences of my own interests, passion, actions and choices. I don't ask OTHER people to pay for my dream, I asked my grandparents and my parents to pay for it. I am entitled to it.

The case against the inheritance tax does not turn on complex legal or economic argument. It is a simple moral case when you really think about it.

The law should be set up to align the interests of one and all.

If the law allows people to keep what they earn, everyone has a private incentive to work hard—which ends up benefiting everyone else.

The money my grandparents kept is AFTER tax money. Why do we as grandchildren must pay HUGE inheritance tax? It is grossly unfair that people that save the most, and plan for future generations get punished.

I have big dreams of establishing my own non-profit organization helping those who deserve my help. I want to use my grandpa's money to help people I LOVE.

Inheritance tax is unfair, and those who say inheritance tax should be set high are simply jealous. **** This statement is not directed at any posters in this thread ***** I have no other ways to explain it.
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Old 01-29-2015, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,264 posts, read 27,666,911 times
Reputation: 16091
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
I keep seeing this...and links to Forbes usually. Forbes considers Trump (who inherited 200 million) to be a self made billionaire. Weird how it ignores the fact that it takes money to make money. Starting with 200 million doesn't strike me as earned, it just strikes me that they benefited by the massive advantages given to those at the top.

But sure, Trump earned it. yup.
Donald Trump's networth is $ 4 BILLION. sure he earned it.
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Old 01-29-2015, 04:54 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
2,395 posts, read 3,019,058 times
Reputation: 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
I have more than I can ask for and I've earned it ethically. I would never do it any other way. And we've already been through this a few pages back; wealthy people care about dishonesty and corruption too. It's just sad you don't.
Not really my point.

To the extent that businesses fail to provide competitive levels of value they open opportunities for competitors. In the analogy you gave a guy cornered the ice cream market and then reduced value by providing less product for the same price. That's the perfect time for a competitor to open up a new ice cream shop that provides better value. A free market will resolve these issues given time.

The real problem happens when the guy who cornered the ice cream market pays the government to implement new strict licensing requirements for new ice cream shops (as an example), thereby tilting the playing field in his favor. This sort of problem is best avoided by ensuring that the government plays a strictly limited role in regulating the economy.

In arguing for a truly free market I am demonstrating more concern about dishonesty and corruption than any proponent of big government regulation in the economy. Big government regulation in the economy will ALWAYS be subject to corruption.

Dave
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Old 01-29-2015, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,773,122 times
Reputation: 9330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Some attempt to redistribute Mastadonian levels of wealth had better be made, or the measly scrapings that you lot mistake for real wealth are going to go away. It's going to be a real eye opener.

H
Governments have been redistributing wealth for decades and it has never helped the poor. Now with the AGW hoax we have wealth being redistributed from the working class to the rich elite.
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Old 01-29-2015, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,773,122 times
Reputation: 9330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
The reason none of you want to go near the 5,000lb Mastadon of Wealth is because none of you built dat. Wealth comes from spending less than you take in... ... I guffaw in your general direction. Wealth comes from having parents and grandparents that made money while they slept.
I have all the wealth I need and got none of it from my parents or grandparents. Million of others are in the same boat.
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