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I hate this expression. So White people who are living below the poverty level are better off than wealthy Blacks? What about the victims of human trafficking? I suppose a disabled person or amputee who is White is "privileged" because he can't possibly know what it's like to be disadvantaged!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant
And white privilege means you cannot empathize.
Of course a White person can't understand what it's like to be Black, but can you "empathize" with Jews whose grandparents were starved to death or gassed by the millions? That was only 70 years ago and 68% of Jews were killed in the Final Solution. Are you saying Blacks have witnessed even worse horrors?
Japanese-Americans lost everything when they were forced from their homes into camps without due process of law. Their only crime was their ancestry, since most of them were legal citizens of the U.S. That wasn't very long ago either.
There have been too many holocausts to list from the killing fields of Cambodia to the extermination of Armenians. What about the Native American tribes whose numbers were almost completely decimated by genocide and disease?
You seem to feel that human suffering is unique to Blacks. It isn't.
Does this mean I feel racism doesn't exist in this country? Only a fool would believe that, but whining about your race as if it's a disability doesn't solve the problem.
Last edited by justNancy; 04-13-2015 at 11:59 PM..
Reason: correct typo
Other studies have also examined race and employment. In a 2009 study, Devah Pager, Bruce Western and Bart Bonikowski, all now sociologists at Harvard, sent actual people to apply for low-wage jobs. They were given identical résumés and similar interview training. Their sobering finding was that African-American applicants with no criminal record were offered jobs at a rate as low as white applicants who had criminal records.
■ When doctors were shown patient histories and asked to make judgments about heart disease, they were much less likely to recommend cardiac catheterization (a helpful procedure) to black patients — even when their medical files were statistically identical to those of white patients.
■ When whites and blacks were sent to bargain for a used car, blacks were offered initial prices roughly $700 higher, and they received far smaller concessions.
■ Several studies found that sending emails with stereotypically black names in response to apartment-rental ads on Craigslist elicited fewer responses than sending ones with white names. A regularly repeated study by the federal Department of Housing and Urban Development sent African-Americans and whites to look at apartments and found that African-Americans were shown fewer apartments to rent and houses for sale. Continue reading the main storyContinue reading the main story Continue reading the main story
■ White state legislators were found to be less likely to respond to constituents with African-American names. This was true of legislators in both political parties.
■ Emails sent to faculty members at universities, asking to talk about research opportunities, were more likely to get a reply if a stereotypically white name was used.
■ Even eBay auctions were not immune. When iPods were auctioned on eBay, researchers randomly varied the skin color on the hand holding the iPod. A white hand holding the iPod received 21 percent more offers than a black hand.
Again......I come back to the irrefutable facts, which is the premise of my thesis. Whites hurt blacks more than blacks have hurt whites and the net effect of this is the cause of the socioeconomic gaps between blacks and whites.
People can try all they want to create the perception that racism is "a wash" because it comes from both sides, because they are not equal and opposite offsetting forces. Blacks simply do not have the means and opportunity, even if they had the motive, to do to whites what whites have had the motive, means and opportunity to do to blacks.....and this continues to this day as the above study suggest.
All you people trying to act like race and color do not matter are either ignorant or disingenuous, if not both. There are all kids of study done yearly demonstrating that race is still a powerful influence of treatment in America.
Other studies have also examined race and employment. In a 2009 study, Devah Pager, Bruce Western and Bart Bonikowski, all now sociologists at Harvard, sent actual people to apply for low-wage jobs. They were given identical résumés and similar interview training. Their sobering finding was that African-American applicants with no criminal record were offered jobs at a rate as low as white applicants who had criminal records.
■ When doctors were shown patient histories and asked to make judgments about heart disease, they were much less likely to recommend cardiac catheterization (a helpful procedure) to black patients — even when their medical files were statistically identical to those of white patients.
■ When whites and blacks were sent to bargain for a used car, blacks were offered initial prices roughly $700 higher, and they received far smaller concessions.
■ Several studies found that sending emails with stereotypically black names in response to apartment-rental ads on Craigslist elicited fewer responses than sending ones with white names. A regularly repeated study by the federal Department of Housing and Urban Development sent African-Americans and whites to look at apartments and found that African-Americans were shown fewer apartments to rent and houses for sale. Continue reading the main storyContinue reading the main story Continue reading the main story
■ White state legislators were found to be less likely to respond to constituents with African-American names. This was true of legislators in both political parties.
■ Emails sent to faculty members at universities, asking to talk about research opportunities, were more likely to get a reply if a stereotypically white name was used.
■ Even eBay auctions were not immune. When iPods were auctioned on eBay, researchers randomly varied the skin color on the hand holding the iPod. A white hand holding the iPod received 21 percent more offers than a black hand.
Again......I come back to the irrefutable facts, which is the premise of my thesis. Whites hurt blacks more than blacks have hurt whites and the net effect of this is the cause of the socioeconomic gaps between blacks and whites.
People can try all they want to create the perception that racism is "a wash" because it comes from both sides, because they are not equal and opposite offsetting forces. Blacks simply do not have the means and opportunity, even if they had the motive, to do to whites what whites have had the motive, means and opportunity to do to blacks.....and this continues to this day as the above study suggest.
All you people trying to act like race and color do not matter are either ignorant or disingenuous, if not both. There are all kids of study done yearly demonstrating that race is still a powerful influence of treatment in America.
Excellent post.
These issues, as well as the denial of them, are so crazy and sad.
Lets stop beating around the bush. Things in this country are a whole lot worse for black people than white people. That is a FACT. Black poverty is 3 times the rate of white poverty. Black unemployment is 2 times the rate of white unemployment. Black wealth is at lest 15 times less than whites. Black out of wedlock births is 3 times the rate of whites. Black homicide rates are 7 times that of whites. We know the data. Why the gaps given that blacks and whites have been in the same land for hundreds of years?
Either it is the fault of blacks or it is the fault of whites that these gaps exist. Performing and behaving worse that whites are either the “natural order” or it’s an unnatural order resulting from different experiences in degree and or kind while in these lands. Either the image of white society must suffer, in explaining this, or the image and nature of blacks must suffer. Either whites society has been morally inferior, in these lands, or blacks are intrinsically inferior. Neither group wants to accept that they are inferior in anyway. The only way that one group is off the hook is for the other group to be on the hook.
Ok. Blacks oppressed blacks. Blacks sold blacks into slavery. Some blacks owned slaves in America. However, go back in Europe you will find that whites oppressed whites and whites held other whites as indentured servants too, even here in America. So blacks oppressed blacks and whites oppressed whites, but whites oppressed blacks too…. BUT BLACKS HAVE NEVER OPPRESSED WHITES in our collective interaction and relationship. If everyone oppressed everyone equally, then it would be all offsetting and there would be racial equality today.
The reason that there are gaps between blacks and white in America is due to the fact that black society has never oppressed white society, but white society has oppressed black society. It’s obfuscation, deflection and misdirection to argue the role that blacks played in oppressing blacks, because whites played a role in oppressing whites. Every group in some way at some time has participated in intra-group oppression. That goes without saying. However, the same cannot be said for inter-racial oppression in this country. Thing are unequal because whites society oppressed black society with no offsetting of black society oppressing white society, thus, the net gain goes to white society, which created the socioeconomic and cultural differences between blacks and whites.
It must be said that we are all HUMAN and we find our self in the conditions we are because of our human nature and not color. There is nothing that whites have, intrinsically, that blacks don’t have that would make them oppressors and we not oppressors. Whites are not naturally morally inferior to blacks. There is also nothing that whites have, intrinsically, that would make them smarter, harder working, less violent or more responsible than blacks either. If we were in the shoes of whites, we would be like them and if they had to walk in our shoes they would be standing where we are today.
That being said, whites are not willing to take ownership of this truth, because they fear the perception of being seen as morally inferior and or they deny it to maintain the doctrine of white intrinsic superiority over blacks. In other words, even if white society never oppressed blacks, blacks would still have 3 times the poverty, twice the unemployment, 15 times less wealth, 7 times more homicides, etc, because it’s the natural order of “survival of the fittest” and white supremacy means whites are fitter and hence that manifest itself in superior socioeconomic statistics.
To be clear, white society not taking and denying ownership for causation can only be justified by the belief or claim that blacks are inferior to whites. There is no middle ground. In other words, one cannot say that white society caused SOME of the gap between blacks and whites…because an implicit claim of black inferiority would still account for the rest. Again, white society only taking partial claim is saying that even if white society did not oppress black society, blacks would still be poorer, more unemployed and less wealthy than whites do to the nature of who we are relative to the nature of who whites are. Thus, it’s all or nothing.
Of course I reject the fallacy of division and composition. In other words, I am not saying what is true for the whole is true of all its parts and you cannot say that what is true of a part is true for the whole in rebuttal. All whites have never been racist, to my knowledge. All white have never owned black slaves, to my knowledge. However, the fact that you never owned a slave or that you are not racist does not cancel the damage done by whites who were racist and who did own slaves.
we will never achieve the equilibrium you desire so long as the above is the paradigm we work from.
These issues, as well as the denial of them, are so crazy and sad.
Exactly, and everything has a consequence and corollary. The denial of the impact of past and present racism only leaves a dysfunctional NATURE of black people as the explanation for the socioeconomic gaps. How healthy is that for black people perceptions of black people, given that whites get to control the narrative via controlling the media? This is also what I was trying to point out in my OP. Either white society takes the moral hit for the blame or the nature of blacks takes the hit for the blame. Hence, denying the blame produces, by default, an indictment against the intrinsic nature of black people. In other words, it's a claim of black inferiority. When society says "its not racism"....it is saying "our nature is the problem".
There are studies that have been done that shows that in split second decision making, peoples subconscious lead them to shoot a black person, thinking they are a danger, more than a white person. There are these studies that I presented above....and countless others. There are studies that show white millennial to be just a racist as generation X whites. There is the sad example presented of the black doll white doll experiment, that shows the subconscious conditioning of race that revealed through children. There are all these incidents of white cops shooting or killing unarmed black men. Yet.....despite all the empirical evidence of racism......it is written off as claim made by a people who have no credibility and who just want to make excuses for their own failures and who have a perpetual victim mentality.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 04-14-2015 at 08:44 AM..
■ Even eBay auctions were not immune. When iPods were auctioned on eBay, researchers randomly varied the skin color on the hand holding the iPod. A white hand holding the iPod received 21 percent more offers than a black hand.
.
I think you made several pretty good points, and i don't disagree with you completely.
But above, I wonder if these two sellers have the exact same feedback score. I have an ebay and an etsy store selling high end cosmetics, hand made stuff, and my own artworks. i also occasionally sell antiques for my parents, I also buy collectibles on etsy and ebay, I ONLY care about feedback stores of the seller, and nothing else.
I only avoid foreign sellers because it takes forever to deliver, (not their fault) and the "name brand" stuff are not authentic, well 80% of the time.
All you people trying to act like race and color do not matter are either ignorant or disingenuous, if not both. There are all kids of study done yearly demonstrating that race is still a powerful influence of treatment in America.
You know, you are loving this straw man and you keep planting it. No one is denying or ignoring racism, slavery or discrimination. Not one person has. You correlate these acts of discrimination with poor black people. However, if we look at the entire sub group of black people we can see more than 70% of them are not poor. That is an overwhelming majority. If racism, discrimination and bigotry was truly prevalent and this hidden agenda of whites to maintain superiority actually existed, it should "oppress" more than just 30% of the population, otherwise, its just not that effective.
You continue to blame white people for the generational poverty issues facing poor people. White people /racism/discrimination do not make the 12 year old get into the drug game.....white people/racism/discrimination do not even remotely encourage 16 year olds to have a kid.
As far as your studies....its nothing groundbreaking. People of all races, ethnicity and backgrounds discriminate and stereotype. It's human nature. You once again paint society with a white paint brush but in reality, in any society or community when you present yourself differently from the norm, you will naturally be treated differently. This is why education is so important for society in general. Being aware that the human mind discriminates and stereotypes almost everything, is half the battle. However, there are many in any community that wants themselves to be viewed differently from the rest. Its called rebellion, unwillingness to conform, etc, etc.
Black sounding name....
I always laugh when I read that in a study. Proponents of the study automatically imply all other names are white names, thereby painting that white paint brush across all of society when in reality society is an eclectic group of colors. I often wonder why a black parent give their kid a "black sounding name". They are willfully and intentionally presenting that child to the world as a kid with a "black sounding name" instead of a kid with a name. Some people do not want to embrace societal norms. I have no problem with this except when the parent then wants to paint society with a paint brush simply because they painted their kid with a black one, when they named him or her. Some people intentionally paint them selves differently...
I get it though, some people want a separate and unique identity instead of embracing societal norms. Cool, do not get upset when you are looked at differently and do not paint this paint brush across society to explain why you are looked at differently.
These studies that show people stereotype and discriminate against stuff that is different is like presenting a study that shows human beings breathing. If you were educated you'd be aware of this and instead of attacking society with a paint brush, you'd be advocating more awareness of this human trait. I digress, you only want use it to use a paint brush and blame people.
Last edited by billydaman; 04-14-2015 at 12:21 PM..
Poverty has relevantly stayed consistent demonstrating its a generational socioeconomic issue rather than some Machiavellian plan by white people to hold back blacks. Is it no coincidence that poverty rates started to pick up around the time of the recession? Or are you making the argument we had an influx of discrimination at the same exact time of the recession?
One could argue the spike is more dramatic but in reality, the black line will be more volatile considering it takes less people to move it. Generally you will see white poverty trending the same as black poverty. In other words, black people and poor come in and out of poverty at about the same rate. I.e. increase in black poverty, you will see an increase in white poverty or vice versa.
Over the long term you will see a downward trend for black poverty as they become more and more separated from discriminatory practices and such. However the issue now is largely escaping poverty rather than escaping racism and discrimination. As you an see in white poverty, its not easy to escape for them either....
Poverty is a socioeconomic issue that is tough to escape and as this chart demonstrates, its fluctuations can be directly correlated with the economy.
Last edited by billydaman; 04-14-2015 at 12:57 PM..
I hate this expression. So White people who are living below the poverty level are better off than wealthy Blacks? What about the victims of human trafficking? I suppose a disabled person or amputee who is White is "privileged" because he can't possibly know what it's like to be disadvantaged!
The thing about White privilege is that it doesn't matter what level of income you have. For example, despite Chris Rock being a famous and wealthy celebrity, he still experiences forms racial discrimination.
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