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Old 05-16-2015, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,542 posts, read 4,094,955 times
Reputation: 3806

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Here's what I'll say:

What happened to the Native Americans was cruel and evil. It was a genocide. I know this because, despite it looking like any other genocide, the people who committed it (or in this case, the ancestors) refuse to call it a genocide, and give it other names. I was taught about manifest destiny, a thing where some guy called God (sounds made up) said you could do whatever you wanted if you're white.

What should have happened? We should not have colonized already inhabited area. Areas in which the natives did not already inhabit could be colonized, but areas that the Native Americans use heavily should not have been colonized and shared if the party that already owned the area consented. We also should have honored all of the treaties we made with Native Americans, because we broke pretty all of them, except some that came into existence in the 20th century, but even now...

Only recently, has a tribe sued the US for breaking it's treaty. The treaty said to the Hopi (I think it was the Hopi) that if they agreed to live on the reservation, the US government would provide clean drinking water. The water had dangerous levels of arsenic in it, and when it was brought to the court, they decided that the government did not have to regulate their water.

We could have allied with them and should have allied with them. We learned a lot. A commonly (intentionally) forgotten fact is that our government has influences from English common law, Roman Democracy, and native tribal laws. Especially those empires in the South, they had vast libraries (burned to the ground) full of knowledge that we will not never know.

As for the constitution, it's not the source of our rights and we need to stop thinking that it is. If you are a human, hell, if you're a living thing, you have rights. You deserve the right to live freely, without anyone forcing themselves on to you and without forcing yourself on to others. As far as I'm concerned, you can do whatever the hell you want so long as you aren't bring measurable harm to others. But it doesn't say that in the constitution, so we can make laws against pretty much anything we don't like. Including things that are in the constitution, unfortunately.

As for what guilt, I feel none. It's not my fault that white people suck. I've never owned a slave, I've never mistreated someone because of race, and I never would. We all, white or anything else, have a moral responsibly to make things right when we see injustices.
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Old 05-16-2015, 12:13 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,841,834 times
Reputation: 20030
Quote:
Originally Posted by motownewave View Post
How do facts equal propaganda?
because most of your "facts" are not facts, but rather propaganda. you claim for instance that the white man mistreated the indians, and that may be true to a point, however you forget that the indian did the same thing to the white man as well. until you actually crack open a history book and do some real studying, you are only spewing the same propaganda that others have spewed.
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Old 05-17-2015, 06:17 AM
 
Location: zooland 1
3,744 posts, read 4,087,312 times
Reputation: 5531
The awesome thing about being American is that you have freedom of choice to personally address perceived injustice in the world.
After I spent three months in Haiti immediately after the earthquake.. rescue...medical.. and then infrastructure I realized I could do better at personally addressing injustice in the world....
So I came back to the US... found a mentally Ill person who needed help staying out of the system and on their own.. if they could have some help. So I did it... that was five years ago...this person still lives on their own... because I help them .

I made the decision and effort to say... I cannot be effective dealing with everyone's problems... but I can address one persons...


What have you done?
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Old 05-17-2015, 11:56 AM
 
1,140 posts, read 1,406,060 times
Reputation: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
As for the constitution, it's not the source of our rights and we need to stop thinking that it is. If you are a human, hell, if you're a living thing, you have rights. You deserve the right to live freely, without anyone forcing themselves on to you and without forcing yourself on to others. As far as I'm concerned, you can do whatever the hell you want so long as you aren't bring measurable harm to others. But it doesn't say that in the constitution, so we can make laws against pretty much anything we don't like. Including things that are in the constitution, unfortunately.
Exactly. And Southern segregationist bigots like George Wallace at one time (1950s and early 1960s) always used the Constitution to defend their racist policies. I also am disgusted that the Constitution was used to ban all alcohol, and that when Prohibition was repealed, state and local authorities were basically allowed (and still are) given the authority to infringe on responsible alcohol consumers' rights and freedoms with little or no federal oversight.
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Old 05-17-2015, 01:26 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,841,834 times
Reputation: 20030
Quote:
Originally Posted by motownewave View Post
Exactly. And Southern segregationist bigots like George Wallace at one time (1950s and early 1960s) always used the Constitution to defend their racist policies. I also am disgusted that the Constitution was used to ban all alcohol, and that when Prohibition was repealed, state and local authorities were basically allowed (and still are) given the authority to infringe on responsible alcohol consumers' rights and freedoms with little or no federal oversight.
look again, in order to ban all alcohol in the US, including the means of production, they had to create an amendment creating prohibition. which means they had to follow the amendment process. same with repealing the 18th amendment. they didnt use teh constitution, they followed it.
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Old 05-17-2015, 02:06 PM
 
22,473 posts, read 11,998,943 times
Reputation: 20398
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
So true. I remember those good ole days when I could just walk up to a native and run him through with my sword. In fact, I put together a slide show for my 400th birthday next month.
^This is the best post in this thread! ROFL!
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Old 05-17-2015, 10:55 PM
 
1,140 posts, read 1,406,060 times
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I love America, and would feel an alien living in any other country (except MAYBE Canada). But I still must ask... why is America so far behind countries in Western Europe, Northern Europe, Australia/New Zealand, Japan, and hell, even Canada when it comes to quality of life and standard of living? Education in America is awful, healthcare wasn't "a right" until Obama came along, American companies are much less willing to give people time off without a fight (), obesity is WAY too common, drug abuse and alcoholism are at a sky-high level, violent crime (think gangs) is high and plagues pretty much every city of any significance whatsoever, the country is still very segregated but unofficially (and the way of life in many black neighborhoods is heartbreaking), pornography is a gigantic industry that manipulates and abuses poor women, mergers between corporate superpowers are "reviewed" and are restricted but still are not nearly as restricted as they should be (Teddy Roosevelt, an early champion of antitrust laws, would be turning in his grave, especially considering how all the oil companies merged around 2000 and have since RIDICULOUSLY jacked up gas prices), Southerners still fly Confederate flags (damn it, the Civil War might as well be ancient history by now), colleges on the other hand indoctrinate students with all kind of Marxist bull$h!t, labor unions have killed our economy and yet they continue to pull political strings, African Americans are converting to Islam (suckers... it was Muslim Arabs who started the African slave trade in the first place), religious cults such as the Jehovah's Witnesses are ensnaring new victims every day, and new Nazi-style laws (enacted due to "terrorism", I say BS) are zapping the fun out of life... ever been to an airport in the States lately? Be prepared to be rap... I mean "searched" by a fellow just as heartless and boneheaded as the guards of Auschwitz. And no, don't you DARE ever ask questions of such a person that give even the slightest hint of disagreement with their demands... you will regret it for the rest of your life.

I wish all this bad news were just a dream (it's the perfect meat for a long, long nightmare) but no, this is reality in America today. Oh and I forgot something... children in ELEMENTARY SCHOOL are required to mindlessly parrot the "Pledge of Allegiance" (allegiance... submission... tyranny) every day. There's a reason they aren't ever actually taught the meaning of this script they are ordered to recite. Must I remind you what now-defunct country (hint... it was long ago defeated by our own forces, thank goodness) the idea of the "Pledge of Allegiance" is borrowed from?
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Old 05-17-2015, 11:02 PM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,855,247 times
Reputation: 9283
Sounds like America is doing great... I love how people hate what they cannot have and find a way to make it miserable and FAIL
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Old 05-17-2015, 11:22 PM
 
Location: California
37,135 posts, read 42,214,810 times
Reputation: 35013
I don't get "white guilt" since every culture and color has plenty to feel guilty about it they put their minds to it. I don't have time for that and don't play that game though. It seems to be a young white person's game, a young white person who never had to worry about anything their entire life and needs something to "struggle" against.
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Old 05-17-2015, 11:43 PM
 
1,140 posts, read 1,406,060 times
Reputation: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
It seems to be a young white person's game, a young white person who never had to worry about anything their entire life and needs something to "struggle" against.
Yes, I do get your point. Starbucks baristas (recently instructed to have race discussions with unsuspecting customers) come to mind.
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