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Old 06-15-2015, 02:36 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,241,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
I believe that's because we have interfered with capitalism adding so many social programs. Take the min. wage for example. It's only low because corporations can opt to pay less than inflation while welfare picks up the slack of Americans that can't live on it with section 8 housing and food stamps.
Workers don't have incentive to demand a decent wage, the government will fill the gaps. Therefore we get mega corps that pay low wages. We wouldn't have that without those social programs influencing capitalism.

Walmart wouldn't exist if the governments nose wasn't up the capital butt. It has taken away supply and demand.
I agree with your position somewhat in the big picture but if there were no "safety nets" Wal Mart would be paying even less. With millions more needing jobs that would drive down wages.
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Old 06-15-2015, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,851 posts, read 26,307,990 times
Reputation: 34062
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
I believe that's because we have interfered with capitalism adding so many social programs. Take the min. wage for example. It's only low because corporations can opt to pay less than inflation while welfare picks up the slack of Americans that can't live on it with section 8 housing and food stamps.
Workers don't have incentive to demand a decent wage, the government will fill the gaps. Therefore we get mega corps that pay low wages. We wouldn't have that without those social programs influencing capitalism.

Walmart wouldn't exist if the governments nose wasn't up the capital butt. It has taken away supply and demand.

It's the same with healthcare. Social programs influence price and not the way you might think. Obamacare has actually made the cost of healthcare rise, not fall.
Obamacare sends health premiums skyrocketing by as much as 78 percent - Washington Times

It was better when there was more competition going on. That's my opinion anyway. Don't get me started on the uneven playing field government involvement has caused for small biz.
Since private sector unions have all but disappeared, how are employees supposed to 'demand higher wages', do they become the sacrificial lamb who walks in the bosses office and demands more money? Only in a perfect world where there are more jobs than people would your idea work.

But.. I do think that EITC is a big wet kiss to business that does encourage them to keep wages down and quiets those pesky low wage workers should they ever decide they want to demand more money.
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Old 06-15-2015, 02:46 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,877,895 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
It's health care that is unaffordable, the ACA didn't make it expensive, it's been outrageously expensive for years.
Deductibles didn't skyrocket until Obamacare.

Quote:
As far as medicare, you aren't responding to my claim that medicare is not going broke
That's because you can't compare Obamacare to Medicare. Like I said, those who receive Medicare benefits paid premiums for decades before they even become eligible for benefits. Let's make the same true for Obamacare. Pay premiums for 20, 30, or 40 or more years first, only then will you be eligible for health insurance but you'll STILL have to pay premiums for it. Then Obamacare will be affordable, too.
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Old 06-15-2015, 02:48 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,877,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Since private sector unions have all but disappeared, how are employees supposed to 'demand higher wages'
Make themselves worth paying them higher wages. Pretty simple, really.
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Old 06-16-2015, 12:07 PM
 
4,800 posts, read 3,511,878 times
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SCOTUS doesnt uphold the law. They are agenda pushers. Dont kid yourself. They will vote in favor of ACA and be done with it. We are being driven by some crazy political agendas to get more control and money to people. None of this healthcare bill was about providing better cheaper costing healthcare. It was all about money and control.
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Old 06-16-2015, 12:24 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,143,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Are you claiming there is no increased cost of the same procedure performed in a doctor's office vs as an outpatient in a critical care facility?

If so, then explain this As doctors flock to hospitals, bills spike for patients | The Charlotte Observer The Charlotte Observer

"For many routine services, insurers pay hospitals more than independent doctors. Under Medicare rules, hospitals are allowed to collect more than doctors – and that means the out-of-pocket share for Medicare patients also is larger....Hospitals get about 80 percent more Medicare revenue than independent doctors for many routine services, he said. But the additional expenses for a hospital don’t justify that kind of payment difference, he said."
The doctors and hospitals dont do the same procedures, thats what you arent getting. Hospitals will run blood tests, xrays etc, a doctor doesnt have the equipment to run them.
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Old 06-16-2015, 01:10 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,241,574 times
Reputation: 17209
Oops.

Feds Can
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Old 06-17-2015, 11:51 AM
 
59,138 posts, read 27,349,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Deductibles didn't skyrocket until Obamacare.

That's because you can't compare Obamacare to Medicare. Like I said, those who receive Medicare benefits paid premiums for decades before they even become eligible for benefits. Let's make the same true for Obamacare. Pay premiums for 20, 30, or 40 or more years first, only then will you be eligible for health insurance but you'll STILL have to pay premiums for it. Then Obamacare will be affordable, too.
"Like I said, those who receive Medicare benefits paid premiums for decades before they even become eligible for benefits" AND if they want anything above hospital care they have to PAY MONTHLY for THAT insurance.
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Old 06-17-2015, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,903,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
It's health care that is unaffordable, the ACA didn't make it expensive, it's been outrageously expensive for years. Since the ACA health care increases have slowed. We allowed doctors, hospitals and pharma to call the shots for decades, charge whatever they wanted and get indignant if we complained..that has come back to haunt us. In Countries with nationalized health care the cost of health care if a fraction of what it is here.

As far as medicare, you aren't responding to my claim that medicare is not going broke you are now shifting the subject to something entirely different which seems to be an argument that you have to pay into medicare before you receive benefits from it
And it's only a fraction as good......

Why do you think everyone wants to come here, to our hospitals?

When the government starts controlling healthcare, that will be the end of breakthroughs and innovation.
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Old 06-19-2015, 07:30 AM
 
10,237 posts, read 6,327,985 times
Reputation: 11290
Preventive & screening services | Medicare.gov

Free is never free. How much money is being spent on all this preventive care? That is not driving up the costs?

It is not only Medicare either. Preventive care is mandated for private health insurance plans also under the ACA.

These are not driving up the costs of health insurance? Get rid of all the unnecessary testing.
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