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I for one am a firm believer that you can accomplish many things here in America. However, if you don't believe that some groups are more privileged than others, than you're either in denial or you are out of touch with reality. This is a real issue and plays a real role in the way many blacks think. Think about it this way, the first thing that we learned in history class is that we come from slaves. We come from nothing in the context of us history. Our grandparents lived through a time where we couldn't vote and had little rights. We were at one point considered only 3/5 of a person. This breeds the mentality of hopelessness, which I see everyday in our communities. I speak of my work in the corporate world and many say that's white people stuff. They don't understand the opportunity here, although even in the corporate world privilege is prevalent. America is a place where many can succeed and there is plenty of upward mobility. Just don't ignore the fact that some groups have a head start while others have to deal with a set of circumstances that most don't have to deal with.
I'm not being facetious here...do you think it's a good thing that you know that you came from slaves and are constantly reminded of it?
Because it seems that a lot of the self defeating attitudes and behavior in a good portion of the black community seem to stem from this.
This isn't South Africa...you are a minority and always will be. You are constantly surrounded by people who, if you are so inclined, you can view as your oppressor. So even if it's some 14 year old white girl living in a middle class suburb with her 3 year old cousin on her lap...does it make it a little easier to brutally yank her down sending the child to the concrete? To dance over her while she's getting kicked in the face? It certainly seems that way.
Of course, it goes the other way where so many white people see a black person and think "thug" from the get go....maybe because of seeing videos like this..being circulated by black people, mind you. Seems cyclical.
Does dwelling on negative past events achieve anything other than hostility, and a hostile reaction to that hostility?
I can agree with that, too. I was somewhat turned off by the title and intention of the thread. We don't need to see this video to make some affirmation that there are bad black people in this country. And that kinda speaks to what I was getting at in my comment. There are poorly behaved people in this world, period, and they shouldn't get a litany of excuses for bad behavior because they are black, poor, etc. However, I agree that it was not necessary to create a thread singling out blacks when teen criminals are well represented in just about every enthnicity.
And with all of this said, it makes me wonder. When a Black person commits a horrible crime, why is everything about that person's race brought up, and furthermore, why is it sudden and indictment on Black people rather than that individual? I'm specifically talking about what I see here on CD.
We don't need to see that particular video. Youtube is full of videos featuring Black people fighting and acting foolish. There are also Black youtubers who will call this histrionic behavior out and call it what it is, stupidity. And while there are alot of persons(mainly subscribers) who agree, those youtubers also get alot of flack and get called names like "Uncle Tom". Oddly enough, it is the same underclass that behaves that way who makes fun of said youtubers.
There is plenty of stuff around us. Problem is, it gets used as an excuse to justify one's hatred of a particular ethnicity.
Here is a way to look at this. I put a video up about affluent African-Americans in DeSoto,Texas. The crime rate for DeSoto,TX, a city that is 69% Black, is available on city-data. It is currently lower than the national average. I looked at the view count for that video. Roughly 31,000-32,000 views in 3 months. I can find videos of Black girls fighting and some of those videos get as many as 500,000 views. It shows what gets more attention.
.........but it does take a fool not to understand that even when income status is factored in, blacks commit a disproportionate number of crimes.
Race and socioeconomic status
While there is a correlation between blacks and Hispanics and crime, the data implies a stronger tie between poverty and crime than crime and any racial group, when gender is taken into consideration.[45] The direct correlation between crime and class, when factoring for race alone, is relatively weak. When gender, and familial history are factored, class correlates more strongly with crime than race or ethnicity.[46][47] Studies indicate that areas with low socioeconomic status may have the greatest correlation of crime with young and adult males, regardless of racial composition, though its effect on females is negligible.[46][47]
The statement you posted (in red) is in direct opposition to what your follow-on comments claim (specifically what I've underlined). As I said, the relationship between blacks and crime has more to do with their level of poverty than their race. What you just posted says outright "The direct correlation between crime and class, when factoring for race alone, is relatively weak".
It's pretty foolish for you to make a claim and then in the very next paragraph post info that contradicts that claim.
So WHO were you claiming was a fool?
Who cares? People are individuals, they will do what the will do. Trying to blame any one specific race for this is foolish.
What is even more foolish is government enforced racial discrimination that attempts to "balance" races, rather than allowing EQUAL opportunities for all people.
Why do some races demand to be judged as individuals rather than as an entire race when an individual does something wrong, but insists on special privileges for the entire race, when some individuals perform poorly? And yes, even that demand for special treatment is only from some individuals.
There is a very narrow demographic that commits most crime:
Young males (16-24) not in school and not employed.
Blacks have a higher birth rate and higher death rate than whites = younger age distribution = higher proportion 16-24 years old.
Black dropout rate much higher (2x?) than white dropout rate.
Black unemployment rate 2x white unemployment rate.
Blacks much more likely to be in that high-crime demographic.
Yup, the underlying problem has much more to do with economics than with race.
Throughout all of history, crime has tended to be focused in poverty-stricken areas. It was true in Roman days, in the age of the British Empire and it's true today. Poverty breeds crime. It has little to do with race - except for the fact that blacks tend to be more poverty-stricken.
There is plenty of stuff around us. Problem is, it gets used as an excuse to justify one's hatred of a particular ethnicity.
.
..with some people you can call it hatred...but how about having a reasonable concern about how a certain group of people is going to behave in a certain situation...when you are around young black men, who carry themselves as thugs or gangsters or bad a**es or whatever you want to call it, is it not within REASON to have more concern about their behavior turning violent than a bunch of white kids the same age? Considering the statistics? Unless you think those are all part of a conspiracy as well. Is that "hate"? I had outright racists in my family, but even the worst of them it wasn't "hate"...it was avoidance, distrust. Not "lets go out and hunt black people." The only person I've ever met who even approached that was a former NYPD Corrections Officer who was so twisted from years of dealing with criminals.
I'm not being facetious here...do you think it's a good thing that you know that you came from slaves and are constantly reminded of it?
Because it seems that a lot of the self defeating attitudes and behavior in a good portion of the black community seem to stem from this.
This isn't South Africa...you are a minority and always will be. You are constantly surrounded by people who, if you are so inclined, you can view as your oppressor. So even if it's some 14 year old white girl living in a middle class suburb with her 3 year old cousin on her lap...does it make it a little easier to brutally yank her down sending the child to the concrete? To dance over her while she's getting kicked in the face? It certainly seems that way.
Of course, it goes the other way where so many white people see a black person and think "thug" from the get go....maybe because of seeing videos like this..being circulated by black people, mind you. Seems cyclical.
Does dwelling on negative past events achieve anything other than hostility, and a hostile reaction to that hostility?
Not the person you were speaking to but as a black person I will say in regards to the above that I am VERY proud to be the descendent of enslaved persons. There were VERY strong people who endured and survived oppression that I cannot even fathom occurring and I am in awe of their strength.
I personally believe that too many whites and other non-black people have a weirded out skewed notion of what "slavery" and its past in our country means to black Americans.
Most every black person I know was raised to know that slaves were strong people. That "black culture" is strength and endurance and perserverance in the face of insurmountable obstacles. This is a huge source of cultural pride and connectivity IMO amongst us.
We cannot change that our ancestors were slaves. There is no reason to be upset about slavery, it is what it is and was what it was but we had strong ancestors and they made it through and we are their dreams come true.
Slavery is not something that brings about hostility in black people. It causes defensiveness in whites IMO much more often than hostile feelings in blacks. Many whites get upset when anything regarding the enslavement of black Americans is mentioned and they try to state that we are mad, when most often than not, we are not mad about slavery.
Now, some of us may get mad that many whites refuse to acknowledge that slavery and 100 years of Jim Crow and institutionalized racism and oppression caused a negative affect for black people in this country. Many whites think we should be up to par with immigrants in statistical categories when black people's experience in this country (those who are the descendants of both slaves and free persons of color from the 17th century in the USA and onward) are nothing like a recent immigrant. Many whites refuse to acknowledge or admit that ending slavery did not end overt discrimination and that the economic effect of the latter (institutionalized racism) has not yet been fully remedied by "freedom." Many also don't acknowledge that "freedom" is pretty new in America for black people and really economic and educational advancement was not wide spread until the late 1960s and early 1970s in this country.
Also, just because blacks were freed from slavery in 1863-1865, attitudes about the inferiority and perceived negative characteristics of blacks did not go away.
You mention "thugs" above and it is funny to me because in the 1870s during Reconstruction and even before and after that time period black people have always been labeled as criminals, sexual deviants, lazy, and unintelligent. Those attitudes have not diminished completely in our country and are VERY evident in conversations such as these on forums and real life if you take a step back and look at it.
So in summation -
1. Most black people are not angered by history or slavery - it happened, its over with
2. Discrimination didn't stop with the end of the Civil War - it went on for a century afterwards and halted the economic progress and educational opportunities of blacks in this country
3. The effects of that discrimination are still evident in the underclass of black America and many in our society do not want to acknowledge this
4. The negative stereoypes of blacks are not new and even with the rise in educational achievement and economics, those stereotypes and attitudes about us have persisted
5. Whites get overly defensive about racism and especially slavery when it is not necessary
Someone mentioned blacks not committing as many crimes 50-60+ years ago....what privileges did they lose along the way to now that made them so prone to crime.
I always lol here on CD when so many people try to act like crime was so low amongst black people 50-60 years ago. Fifty-60 years ago, mainstream society, like today's society felt that black people were hyper-criminal. There were more blacks in prison than whites back then too. Crime rates were actually higher in the late 1960s and early 1970s amongst blacks than they are today.
People around here are not well versed in history. Like I said in my comment earlier, blacks have always been seen as prone to crime in this country, even during the slavery era. Look at the movie "Birth of a Nation" the whites whipped themselves into hysteria and created the clan to "save" the whites from the hyper-sexual, rapist, super criminal, ignorant black population.
These attitudes have not changed and if you review the data in this country, it will show that blacks have always been seen as "thugs" and criminals.
Even the out of wedlock birth thing IMO is pretty laughable, considering, like I said that black crime rates have decreased substantially since the 1970s while single parent homes increase dramatically. Also, single parent homes amongst white parents have increased as well yet crime has not gone up with whites since the 1970s so one cannot correllate a direct relationship between crime and single parent household. Crime is related to poverty and opportunity.
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