Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
..with some people you can call it hatred...but how about having a reasonable concern about how a certain group of people is going to behave in a certain situation...when you are around young black men, who carry themselves as thugs or gangsters or bad a**es or whatever you want to call it, is it not within REASON to have more concern about their behavior turning violent than a bunch of white kids the same age? Considering the statistics? Unless you think those are all part of a conspiracy as well. Is that "hate"? I had outright racists in my family, but even the worst of them it wasn't "hate"...it was avoidance, distrust. Not "lets go out and hunt black people." The only person I've ever met who even approached that was a former NYPD Corrections Officer who was so twisted from years of dealing with criminals.
One question. Are you saying all Black men carry themselves like that or are you specifying the type of Black persons to worry about? Because one thing I've seen little of is making the distinction between hood rats and the average Black person.
Problem is not with statistics. It is how they are used by the individual. I have not once said "people want to hunt Blacks". I've said people use those videos to justify their own hatred towards Blacks, all the while, there are videos of Black people doing good things.
And what else can I get out of the purpose of showing the video of the girl attacking another girl, but that this was about race? Look at the title "Another Black teen criminal". This was made all about race. Here is the question. Why is it that if a Black criminal does something stupid, everything about race is brought up, but if a White criminal does something criminal, it is about being "trashy", "mentally ill", "stupid", because everything but race?
Not the person you were speaking to but as a black person I will say in regards to the above that I am VERY proud to be the descendent of enslaved persons. There were VERY strong people who endured and survived oppression that I cannot even fathom occurring and I am in awe of their strength.
I personally believe that too many whites and other non-black people have a weirded out skewed notion of what "slavery" and its past in our country means to black Americans.
Most every black person I know was raised to know that slaves were strong people. That "black culture" is strength and endurance and perserverance in the face of insurmountable obstacles. This is a huge source of cultural pride and connectivity IMO amongst us.
We cannot change that our ancestors were slaves. There is no reason to be upset about slavery, it is what it is and was what it was but we had strong ancestors and they made it through and we are their dreams come true.
Slavery is not something that brings about hostility in black people. It causes defensiveness in whites IMO much more often than hostile feelings in blacks. Many whites get upset when anything regarding the enslavement of black Americans is mentioned and they try to state that we are mad, when most often than not, we are not mad about slavery.
Now, some of us may get mad that many whites refuse to acknowledge that slavery and 100 years of Jim Crow and institutionalized racism and oppression caused a negative affect for black people in this country. Many whites think we should be up to par with immigrants in statistical categories when black people's experience in this country (those who are the descendants of both slaves and free persons of color from the 17th century in the USA and onward) are nothing like a recent immigrant. Many whites refuse to acknowledge or admit that ending slavery did not end overt discrimination and that the economic effect of the latter (institutionalized racism) has not yet been fully remedied by "freedom." Many also don't acknowledge that "freedom" is pretty new in America for black people and really economic and educational advancement was not wide spread until the late 1960s and early 1970s in this country.
Also, just because blacks were freed from slavery in 1863-1865, attitudes about the inferiority and perceived negative characteristics of blacks did not go away.
You mention "thugs" above and it is funny to me because in the 1870s during Reconstruction and even before and after that time period black people have always been labeled as criminals, sexual deviants, lazy, and unintelligent. Those attitudes have not diminished completely in our country and are VERY evident in conversations such as these on forums and real life if you take a step back and look at it.
So in summation -
1. Most black people are not angered by history or slavery - it happened, its over with
2. Discrimination didn't stop with the end of the Civil War - it went on for a century afterwards and halted the economic progress and educational opportunities of blacks in this country
3. The effects of that discrimination are still evident in the underclass of black America and many in our society do not want to acknowledge this
4. The negative stereoypes of blacks are not new and even with the rise in educational achievement and economics, those stereotypes and attitudes about us have persisted
5. Whites get overly defensive about racism and especially slavery when it is not necessary
I appreciate your response. My experience attending college goes against #1...it's possible that the more militant black people spoke up more and therefore distorted my view, but I'll never forget one kid telling us that, and I quote "we just want y'all to know that wouldn't get away with that **** again." when he was asked how white people SHOULD discuss the issue of racism and the history of slavery by another student after numerous hostile responses. I think his intention was to put us on the defensive, you think?
It left a lot of non-black people in the class wondering ...do black people really believe white people want them to be slaves again? Most people just shook their heads and decided it was pointless to discuss any further with people who have that warped a view. In a lecture hall of about 200 people, about 40 of them being African American, the most vocal were flat out hostile.
That's what leads into #5. There is good reason to be defensive or just avoid the subject, because it is a no win situation. If you do anything other than agree with militant black people, you are a racist.
I agree with the rest of your points, but the real issue is as always, what to do about it.
Do you have any statistics to back up your claims?
Yeah the fbi crime data base. Any study that addresses crime and race.
Again the idea that black people are criminals is an old racist idea. It's why segregation was endorsed, it's why lynching was endorsed, it's why job discrimination, housing discrimination were endorsed.
People think racists throughout history just said I hate n words to justify racist policy. They didn't, racists have explanations and reasons for their racist beliefs.
One of the oldest and original justifications of racism towards black Americans is we are criminals and dangerous and need to be controlled and kept at a distance.
In fact every racist white supremacist organization past and present endorses this view of violent/criminal black people of dangerous black people.
Again, this is what mr roof said before he killed 9 black Americans, it was about his belief in connecting back people with crime, that's why he felt he could kill any random group of black people.
He thinks just like the OP and too many other Americans.
crime has nothing to do with skin color, and it's only tangentially related to poverty.
The overwhelming majority of black people and poor people are not criminals and will not be criminals.
So when we connect crime to race and/or poverty without connecting how our society is failing those groups, we stigmatize millions upon millions of innocent fellow Americans as criminals based on skin color and neighborhood.
One question. Are you saying all Black men carry themselves like that or are you specifying the type of Black persons to worry about? Because one thing I've seen little of is making the distinction between hood rats and the average Black person.
Problem is not with statistics. It is how they are used by the individual. I have not once said "people want to hunt Blacks". I've said people use those videos to justify their own hatred towards Blacks, all the while, there are videos of Black people doing good things.
And what else can I get out of the purpose of showing the video of the girl attacking another girl, but that this was about race? Look at the title "Another Black teen criminal". This was made all about race. Here is the question. Why is it that if a Black criminal does something stupid, everything about race is brought up, but if a White criminal does something criminal, it is about being "trashy", "mentally ill", "stupid", because everything but race?
Obviously the person posting the video has a racial agenda....but there is a racial agenda from many black people as well. And the video isn't faked.
I think Dylan Roof was a moronic racist influenced by racist ideas perpetuated on the internet. Of course that was about race, or racism.
The girl in this video is a brute who may be influenced in her brutality by the person she is beating on being white. Why is it assumed that she was not? How do you know that wasn't in her mind, that she was going to enjoy beating up a white girl because she heard about South Carolina or Ferguson?
Yeah the fbi crime data base. Any study that addresses crime and race.
Again the idea that black people are criminals is an old racist idea. It's why segregation was endorsed, it's why lynching was endorsed, it's why job discrimination, housing discrimination were endorsed.
People think racists throughout history just said I hate n words to justify racist policy. They didn't, racists have explanations and reasons for their racist beliefs.
One of the oldest and original justifications of racism towards black Americans is we are criminals and dangerous and need to be controlled and kept at a distance.
In fact every racist white supremacist organization past and present endorses this view of violent/criminal black people of dangerous black people.
Again, this is what mr roof said before he killed 9 black Americans, it was about his belief in connecting back people with crime, that's why he felt he could kill any random group of black people.
He thinks just like the OP and too many other Americans.
crime has nothing to do with skin color, and it's only tangentially related to poverty.
The overwhelming majority of black people and poor people are not criminals and will not be criminals.
So when we connect crime to race and/or poverty without connecting how our society is failing those groups, we stigmatize millions upon millions of innocent fellow Americans as criminals based on skin color and neighborhood.
It's evil and wrong.
Exactly, most poor blacks aren't criminals but the few who are control the neighborhoods.
Exactly, most poor blacks aren't criminals but the few who are control the neighborhoods.
Control the neighborhoods?
We use overwrought language when thinking about black people and crime.
I have some perspective. I was a teenager in the late 1980's to early 1990,s. I lived in a suburb of Chicago. I remember when in Chicago 800-900 people used to be murdered every year. I remember the number of murders in Chicago increasing every year I was in high school.
If you would have told 16year old me that the number of murders in Chicago would be in the low 400's(any number of murders is too many) a year I wouldn't have believed you.
I would have thought things have gotten a lot better.
Yet here we are where crime has dropped a lot since the 1980's and 1990's and many people pretend as if that hasn't happened, they pretend that crime rates are intractable, even though crime has been dropping nation wide and in most big cities for over 20yrs.
So, this idea that criminals control neighborhoods is nonsense. Doesn't mean they can't scare people and have a huge impact on how safe they feel, but control gives them too much power.
We use overwrought language when thinking about black people and crime.
I have some perspective. I was a teenager in the late 1980's to early 1990,s. I lived in a suburb of Chicago. I remember when in Chicago 800-900 people used to be murdered every year. I remember the number of murders in Chicago increasing every year I was in high school.
If you would have told 16year old me that the number of murders in Chicago would be in the low 400's(any number of murders is too many) a year I wouldn't have believed you.
I would have thought things have gotten a lot better.
Yet here we are where crime has dropped a lot since the 1980's and 1990's and many people pretend as if that hasn't happened, they pretend that crime rates are intractable, even though crime has been dropping nation wide and in most big cities for over 20yrs.
So, this idea that criminals control neighborhoods is nonsense. Doesn't mean they can't scare people and have a huge impact on how safe they feel, but control gives them too much power.
Poor neighborhoods are controlled by criminals. Try going outside during a gang/turf war. We literally walked in fear of getting shot. I was once caught in a crossfire leaving a friends house one night. Criminals downright terrorize/terrify the neighborhood at times. You want to know why many murders go unsolved? Because criminals control the neighborhoods and if you see something and inform police you are labeled as a snitch those same criminals will come and deal with you.
We use overwrought language when thinking about black people and crime.
I have some perspective. I was a teenager in the late 1980's to early 1990,s. I lived in a suburb of Chicago. I remember when in Chicago 800-900 people used to be murdered every year. I remember the number of murders in Chicago increasing every year I was in high school.
If you would have told 16year old me that the number of murders in Chicago would be in the low 400's(any number of murders is too many) a year I wouldn't have believed you.
I would have thought things have gotten a lot better.
Yet here we are where crime has dropped a lot since the 1980's and 1990's and many people pretend as if that hasn't happened, they pretend that crime rates are intractable, even though crime has been dropping nation wide and in most big cities for over 20yrs.
So, this idea that criminals control neighborhoods is nonsense. Doesn't mean they can't scare people and have a huge impact on how safe they feel, but control gives them too much power.
Yes murders citywide in Chicago have gone down, but the murders have become even more concentrated in certain neighborhoods which are predominately African American.
Because drug penalties were stiffened during the 1980's in response to the proliferation of crack and other drugs. Previously, prison sentences were much shorter and prosecutions themselves much less common. The new combination meant more folks in prison.
Ken
You are saying that overall(shouldn't need this caveat but someone will no doubt accuse me of saying that all black people are criminals if I don't) blacks tend to commit a lot of crime. That might make sense. I have been in jail and I now identify as black.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
