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Your point seems to be that you can use cheesy debate tactics (strawman), but anybody who calls you out on it, is using cheesy, underhanded debate tactics.
If you have anything of substance to offer, please do so, sans strawman or red herring, and I will respond. Play the cheese, however, and I will call you out on it.
Keep talking about me, no need to address the points LOL
Some people call presence of laws "loss of freedoms", but they do not know their history. This country has always had laws. For example during the days of the founding fathers, homosexuality was punishable by death, and in some States church attendance was mandatory. Many laws did not exist, because there was no need for them. For example traffic laws were not necessary in a nation where there was no traffic. Later a need arose, so laws were created. There were no laws regarding mail ordering, because mail ordering did not yet exist. Even after mail ordering was invented, there were no laws regarding the mentally ill mail ordering guns, because it has not been identified as a problem yet.
The stand by the points I made earlier. "Freedom restricting" laws have been around since day one, and thank God some have been abolished, while some new ones have been created. Someone will always complain that laws take away their freedoms. Some support the laws, and understand why they were created, while others complain. Are some laws stupid? Yes. Are others necessary? Yes. We have a Congress to create new laws, and abolish bad ones. It's just the way it works.
For starters, if you were not being so obtuse, you'd understand that I was referring to a tyrannical government intent on usurping or actually overriding our Republics Constitution. Whether it be via executive fiat, or some other means not stipulated within the bounds of said governing document.
So while some of the examples you gave have occurred because of the koolaid drinking sheeple, if push comes to shove, none of the other amendments can be protected if a all powerful tyrannical government disarms the peoples ability to defend the Constitution, against enemies within our own government.
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Who'se being obtuse when you refuse to see you don't have to have a tyrannical gov't to lose those things stipulated in the constitution? By your own admission; it's already happening without any of you firing a shot with all your 2nd amendment toys.
Recap: my 2nd amendment rights trump all others but hasn't, isn't and won't prevent those events it was designed to prevent. "Push comes to shove"? The only push you seem able to envision is loss of the 2nd itself. Kinda silly zealously bleating over the 2nd when all those things it was supposed to mitigate you from, are happening with it in existence and you not using it.
That would be called oxymoronic by any thinking person.
You're not showing anyone anything except your own lack of perspective and ability to rationally assess sets of circumstances. It isn't clever, it is sad because your lack of intellectual acuity blinds you to vital facts and circumstance. Your effort at being "clever" prevents you from seeing anything of import. You are losing your rights day-by-day, and all you can do is talk about slavery. It is amazing how gullible people can be, and I offer my heart-felt wishes form some sort of recovery before you "clever" yourself and America into tyranny. In the field of magic, it is called mis-direction, and buddy, you seem to fall for it wholesale. Sad, so very sad.
And you seem to be dancing around what the poster said, it's sad really that you seem to be unable to answer or even acknowledge that the only freedoms that have been restrictive are the ones in your own head. Most places you can collect your own rainwater however those places that you can't are usually during certain periods of time such as during a drought. And btw farmers in california are second to beverage companies in consumption of water which is a big problem when california is facing a very sever drought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piccadilly Lily
I see the Strawman is awake and well. Another credibility-deprived poster
It seems with you right now everything is a strawman, that is what you've been doing so far with every single poster. Why did you even bother posting if you didn't want to hear anything that questioned or conflicted with your ideas.
Some people call presence of laws "loss of freedoms", but they do not know their history. This country has always had laws. For example during the days of the founding fathers, homosexuality was punishable by death, and in some States church attendance was mandatory. Many laws did not exist, because there was no need for them. For example traffic laws were not necessary in a nation where there was no traffic. Later a need arose, so laws were created. There were no laws regarding mail ordering, because mail ordering did not yet exist. Even after mail ordering was invented, there were no laws regarding the mentally ill mail ordering guns, because it has not been identified as a problem yet.
The stand by the points I made earlier. "Freedom restricting" laws have been around since day one, and thank God some have been abolished, while some new ones have been created. Someone will always complain that laws take away their freedoms. Some support the laws, and understand why they were created, while others complain. Are some laws stupid? Yes. Are others necessary? Yes. We have a Congress to create new laws, and abolish bad ones. It's just the way it works.
News Flash - we have always had laws. Who would have thunk it. OMG You state the obvious, (that we have always had laws) as if that is full and proper justification for an ever-escalating and accelerating imposition of ever more laws (passed by a legislative body) and regulations (promulgated by a non-legislative administrative agency) that come more and more from the Central government that serve to chisel, sometimes wholesale, the freedom of the people and disrupt the proper relationship between the Central government and the States, most if not all of which are crafted under phony pretense, and all having the effect in increasing the power (breadth, depth and scope) of government, while decreasing the freedom and autonomy of the true owners of the country, i.e "We the People".
It is not that laws/regulations exist per se (as you assert) but the degree, and source (central vs state/local) and nature (legislated law, vs promulgated regulation), as well as the pace of acceleration in the creation thereof, and in many cases, in the improper usurpation of jurisdictions in improper manner that is onerous and objectionable (and worse).
Look at Obama Care - an absolute disaster at every level. Costs, both premium and deductible, have skyrocketed, and while some have gain converge (but not care, because of deductible minimums), as many or more have lost it. Many are forced into policies that cover things they don't want or need (like OB Gyn care for men, birth control for the elderly etc. Your life has been adversely impacted, and the grips of the Feds on yet another aspect of life has been increased.
And you seem to be dancing around what the poster said, it's sad really that you seem to be unable to answer or even acknowledge that the only freedoms that have been restrictive are the ones in your own head. Most places you can collect your own rainwater however those places that you can't are usually during certain periods of time such as during a drought. And btw farmers in california are second to beverage companies in consumption of water which is a big problem when california is facing a very sever drought.
It seems with you right now everything is a strawman, that is what you've been doing so far with every single poster. Why did you even bother posting if you didn't want to hear anything that questioned or conflicted with your ideas.
Every strawman is a strawman.
It is sad that you seem to place beverage companies (breweries, I suppose) on the same footing as those that grown the completely un-necessary luxury we eat, i.e. food. Can you think of a more-important use for water other than food (and don't mention drinking, because that consumes an infinitesimal percentage of water used.
BTW, I spend a lot of time in California, and am aware, acutely aware, of the drought.
Last edited by Piccadilly Lily; 12-25-2015 at 01:37 PM..
It seems with you right now everything is a strawman, that is what you've been doing so far with every single poster. Why did you even bother posting if you didn't want to hear anything that questioned or conflicted with your ideas.
People do it in order to deflect. You can't please everyone. Yes, laws restrict freedoms. Go to a prison and ask anyone, and they'll be happy to agree with it. Was there ever a 'freedom' for the mentally ill to mail-order guns? Yes, and its a good thing they can't do it today. They can cry about the loss of their freedom all they want, but when their 'freedom' started costing other people their lives, then something had to be done.
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LOL
You state the obvious, (that we have always had laws) as if that is full and proper justification for an ever-escalating and accelerating imposition of ever more laws (passed by a legislative body) and regulations (promulgated by a non-legislative administrative agency) that come more and more from the Central government that serve to chisel, sometimes wholesale, the freedom of the people and disrupt the proper relationship between the Central government and the States, most if not all of which are crafted under phony pretense, and all having the effect in increasing the power (breadth, depth and scope) of government, while decreasing the freedom and autonomy of the true owners of the country, i.e "We the People". 
