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Perhaps at the site where the Twin Towers fell, we should erect a monument to the Al Qaeda operatives that took the planes down. I mean sure, they were on the wrong side of history (like the Confederate soldiers), but they were apart of an important historical event. If any of these Al Qaeda dudes have offspring/family living in the states, they should demand the right to have their relatives honored.
39 pages of this, and this has been proven. No matter how many facts there are, there are those who will stubbornly hold on to things not honorable. There is nothing honorable about the Confederacy in terms of its cause.
so because its not honoarable you want to take the statues and erase history has it never happen, and replace it with what. even thought it might not be honorable, you still honor your relative for standing up.
if you not southerner it might be hard for you to understand, we live history daily. The town I live in is named after a confederate general, so am i now from nowhere to keep 11% of the population happy.
why dont the southern keep their statues and those from up north stay out of it and yall can do what ever you want with your statues
We (American people) have delayed dealing with these issues for too long. Problems don't usually go away only when ignored (that sounds like magical thinking), in fact, sometime they fester & worsen.
I find it hard to believe there are many Americans who wish the Confederacy had won?
Although I suppose you're right when you say those same folks would not admit it without simultaneously denying the fact the Confederacy is founded on White Supremacy & Slavery.
All the events culminating in the 60s were a result of things festering. Many thought you could just ignore things, or try to continue like business as usual.
I'm finding it easy to believe that some people would want the South to win. I've seen it around me. I grew up around persons who thought in such a way. Some were not vocal about it.
Many things have changed for the better. However, some peoplehave not changed, and some of that gets passed down to the next generation. Some people just hide how they feel. One could say things like that at one time. Not anymore. Some opinions have not changed, some people just hide it now.
All the events culminating in the 60s were a result of things festering. Many thought you could just ignore things, or try to continue like business as usual.
Yes, that's exactly what I was getting at.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
I'm finding it easy to believe that some people would want the South to win. I've seen it around me. I grew up around persons who thought in such a way. Some were not vocal about it.
Many things have changed for the better. However, some peoplehave not changed, and some of that gets passed down to the next generation. Some people just hide how they feel. One could say things like that at one time. Not anymore. Some opinions have not changed, some people just hide it now.
I have rarely heard anyone express they would have preferred the Confederacy had won. I grew up in NY but have lived elsewhere, including former Confederate States. In NY, people tend to be more straightforward, honest - some say rude & I won't deny. Some folks speak about 'Southern hospitality' however I've found some of that to be hollow or dishonest. If someone says, 'Come back & see us sometime' the New Yorker in me tends to believe they're being sincere. Although some of my experiences around 'Southern hospitality' have instructed me to sometimes dismiss as meaningless. Saying, 'Come back & see us sometime' could be said while metaphorically knifing you in the back or, conversely, it could be a heartfelt sentiment.
Personally, I think it's better for all concerned to be honest. It's better to know where you stand with people. & I don't buy it when folks say something like, 'it's heritage not hate.' That makes no sense, is irrational, illogical ... & not into the drama plays either.
For example, is it possible for you to translate what this means:
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbagg
...if you not southerner it might be hard for you to understand, we live history daily. ...
Perhaps at the site where the Twin Towers fell, we should erect a monument to the Al Qaeda operatives that took the planes down. I mean sure, they were on the wrong side of history (like the Confederate soldiers), but they were apart of an important historical event. If any of these Al Qaeda dudes have offspring/family living in the states, they should demand the right to have their relatives honored.
Yes, I get where you're coming from.
'Honor Killing' is much more murderous than honorable.
so because its not honoarable you want to take the statues and erase history has it never happen, and replace it with what. even thought it might not be honorable, you still honor your relative for standing up.
if you not southerner it might be hard for you to understand, we live history daily. The town I live in is named after a confederate general, so am i now from nowhere to keep 11% of the population happy.
why dont the southern keep their statues and those from up north stay out of it and yall can do what ever you want with your statues
You don't live history any more than anyone else in this country. You CHOOSE to dwell on it.
We've all heard the old cliche that: "Those who don't remember history are condemned to repeat it."
It's just as valid to say that those who dwell on history are doomed to repeat it.
My recommendation -- stop living history that died 150 years ago and start learning to put history in perspective.
You don't live history any more than anyone else in this country. You CHOOSE to dwell on it.
We've all heard the old cliche that: "Those who don't remember history are condemned to repeat it."
It's just as valid to say that those who dwell on history are doomed to repeat it.
My recommendation -- stop living history that died 150 years ago and start learning to put history in perspective.
Thanks for the assist in translation, I appreciate. The entire post had my NY BS detector bleeping off the charts!
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbagg
so because its not honoarable you want to take the statues and erase history has it never happen, and replace it with what. even thought it might not be honorable, you still honor your relative for standing up.
if you not southerner it might be hard for you to understand, we live history daily. The town I live in is named after a confederate general, so am i now from nowhere to keep 11% of the population happy.
why dont the southern keep their statues and those from up north stay out of it and yall can do what ever you want with your statues
See what I mean? Although he does admit something is not honorable? Somehow something dishonorable should be honored if a family member is involved?
& sadly, the logic breaks down even further & the BS piles up even more. How is asking folks to consider moving a Memorial honoring an (admitted) White Supremacist Insurrection to a Confederate Museum around the block 'erasing history?' (specifically the 'Battle of Liberty Place' monument)
& where does he pull the 11% from?
Oh I give up. It's too ridiculous.
Last edited by ChiGeekGuest; 01-02-2016 at 05:27 PM..
FACT is these memorials aren't alive and aren't actually hurting anyone at all...people are choosing to be offended by them rather than thinking "yeah that's something/someone that happened to get to the point of ME EXISTING HERE TODAY". History is ugly folks, but it's ours and it all got us here didn't it?
Offence is probably not the best gauge of anything given how easily and often people get offended.
Sorry my liberal brothers, but you cannot have it both ways. You cannot eliminate someones culture just because you find what it stands for (in your mind) just because you find it offensive. That is not what America is all about. Tolerance comes in all colors.
FACT is these memorials aren't alive and aren't actually hurting anyone at all...people are choosing to be offended by them rather than thinking "yeah that's something/someone that happened to get to the point of ME EXISTING HERE TODAY". History is ugly folks, but it's ours and it all got us here didn't it?
Offence is probably not the best gauge of anything given how easily and often people get offended.
Incorrect, the FACT is that these memorials were strewn all over the place, largely in the early-20th century to not commemorate the Confederacy, but to foster a public display of white supremacy. It is great that the Daughters of the Confederacy may (or may not) have solicited private funding to carve statues or create cemeteries, but for all of you championing these confederate monuments as FREE speech, have you ever asked the question "who exactly pays for the maintenance of all this Confederate stuff"?
As the rational people on this forum might suspect, and suspect correctly, all of this Confederate "remembrance" is one big government boondoggle:
As Loewen's book "Lies Across America" points out, much of what is symbolized by these Confederate monuments (statues and graves) has very little to do with the actual history of the Civil War and only came about decades after the Civil War to assert racial dominance in the Jim Crow Era. As numerous individuals on this forum have pointed out, very little of the history is actually being taught because primary sources generated from people who lived in the era are largely ignored and what is proffered in grade school history is a work of science fiction disseminated overwhelmingly by people unqualified to even teach the subject:
It was only a matter of time before there was pushback on this Jim Crow Era escapade and only a matter of time before the taxpayers of largely diverse cities got tired of paying to maintain stuff that has no business on sovereign , public, AMERICAN ground. James Loewen is the pre-eminent historian on historical myths (feel free to read his "Lies My Teacher Told Me", "Lies Across America", or "Sundown Towns") and has written extensively on this subject:
All of his and related works are easily accessible. Yet people continue just to make stuff up without either virtue of taken a credible college level history course or taking the class and completely ignoring the research presented to them. Because none of the tripe that is being spouted about "erasing history" is part of the social science curriculum of any accredited institution of higher learning.
Last edited by Steelers10; 01-02-2016 at 06:37 PM..
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Heritage is Heritage
