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Who exactly do the Bundy's think they are representing?
The ranchers at the center of this issue (the Hammonds) have said they don't want the militias there.
The townsfolk of Burns don't want the militia there.
The Oregon militia have said they don't want the Bundy Militia there.
Other national militias (the so called 'oath keepers' and 3 percenters) don't want anything to do with this.
The local sherif doesn't want them there.
So what exactly do you think this whole thing is? Some sort of operation to trick poor unsuspecting militia men into a trap?
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodmockingbird
Why doubt that this is the case? it has been done time and time again.
Paid informants are a whole industry! Unsavory as all get out, but an industry nonetheless.
There are, of course, ethically operated honeypot operations that will stand up to strictest legal scrutiny, set up and operated by law enforcement. They serve a purpose, and have probably saved countless lives. The poor dimbulb who gets drunk and posts some tirade somewhere advocating mayhem is discretely contacted by the 'like minded', makes a new 'friend', but -- significantly -- is given repeated, sincere opportunities to regain his senses and back away.
Terry Loewen -- the aspiring Wichita KS airport 'bomber -- was corralled by ethical, law enforcement agents who corresponded with him. He was given countless chances to back out. But didn't.
The big industry, however, is in paid informants who use any sort of trickery, hysterical videos, and inflammatory language to entirely lead some unstable slob to commit himself to a criminal act on video -- and the informant gets paid a stipend for each 'case' they can set up and incriminate. OR the 'paid informant' is himself getting 'paid' via a reduction in prison time for 'cooperation'. Sadly, they often prey upon people with actual mental disabilities.
An ongoing and highly public case has been that of radio 'shock jock' Hal Turner:
Who exactly do the Bundy's think they are representing?
The ranchers at the center of this issue (the Hammonds) have said they don't want the militias there.
The townsfolk of Burns don't want the militia there.
The Oregon militia have said they don't want the Bundy Militia there.
Other national militias (the so called 'oath keepers' and 3 percenters) don't want anything to do with this.
The local sherif doesn't want them there.
So who are their supporters?
They're getting down to the last crumbs in their bag of Tactical Survival Doritos and desperately reaching out to draw in two categories:
1) Deranged meth head 'Timothy McVeigh' types in search of violence who can scrounge up transportation off to the middle of nowhere. And hopefully some hellacious scary weaponry. These types are distinguishable by their tooth to tattoo ratio.
and
2) More sensible but thoroughly disgruntled men, many of them veterans, who can be lured by dramatic videos of 'patriots' sending out videos of themselves bidding farewell to family and civilisation -- voice trembling with emotion, but steely eyes studiously steadfast -- who can't quite bring themselves to wholeheartedly commit to the whole blaze of glory scene, but who can load up a cooler with beer and beef jerky to ditch the old lady and kids, and venture out across country in support of fellow 'patriots'. But they can camp prudently and legally outside the Redneck Caliphate. ie, the 'Last Hurrah', sentimentalist 'sagebrush sunset' types. These are distinguishable by old fatigue jackets that no longer button over the beer belly. Many of them, sadly, are probably honorable, if confused and naive, people.
Simply institute a siege eliminating food and power as well as keep everyone, including the press a long way away. Then wait the idiots out. When they try to leave arrest them for everything from trespassing to insurrection and terrorism.
Another alternative is to bring up some National Guard artillery and blow the place and its terrorists to very small pieces. Try the siege and if it does not work over the winter blow the fool to shreds.
Doing nothing or standing down as was done before is unacceptable.
Simply institute a siege eliminating food and power as well as keep everyone, including the press a long way away. Then wait the idiots out. When they try to leave arrest them for everything from trespassing to insurrection and terrorism.
Another alternative is to bring up some National Guard artillery and blow the place and its terrorists to very small pieces. Try the siege and if it does not work over the winter blow the fool to shreds.
Doing nothing or standing down as was done before is unacceptable.
Should we file charges against Holder for his armed occupation of a federal ROTC office? Post crime drone strike?
So what exactly do you think this whole thing is? Some sort of operation to trick poor unsuspecting militia men into a trap?
I think -- and this is my personal opinion only -- that a couple or three agents provocateur informant types and their handlers saw that the whole Hammond thing was falling apart so far as gathering in potentially violent extremists in Burns, surrounding the Hammond family, and went to Plan B.
Plan B is ingenious in that it would siphon off the most radical and violence prone way off into the middle of nowhere at Malheur, away from noncombatants.
This was not the original plan, but an ad hoc improvisation. And a brilliant one.
Except that the more traditional, well organised, law-abiding, and generally-law-abiding militia saw through it and stood down.
Now it's just agents provocateur and a handful of the most unstable wackos out there in the snow, as winter sets in.
They may or may not get their comms shut down. It would be quite easy. But they may be allowed to continue their siren call to the sagebrush caliphate in order to lure in all the truly dangerous radicals that can be lured in.
Who exactly do the Bundy's think they are representing?
The ranchers at the center of this issue (the Hammonds) have said they don't want the militias there.
The townsfolk of Burns don't want the militia there.
The Oregon militia have said they don't want the Bundy Militia there.
Other national militias (the so called 'oath keepers' and 3 percenters) don't want anything to do with this.
The local sherif doesn't want them there.
So who are their supporters?
Why is the government interested in putting a man in prison for what was most likely a bunch of dirt on fire. Burns, Oregon is nothing but sand and dirt, nothing to destroy.......yet, the government will not except this was possibly an accident. What does putting a 73 yr old man in prison do, possibly this is why Bundy is there.
1) Deranged meth head 'Timothy McVeigh' types in search of violence
and
2) More sensible but thoroughly disgruntled men, many of them veterans, who can be lured by dramatic videos of 'patriots' sending out videos of themselves bidding farewell to family and civilisation -- voice trembling with emotion, but steely eyes studiously steadfast -- who can't quite bring themselves to wholeheartedly commit to the whole blaze of glory scene...
Well said. At the same time, I think it is important to ask why the government is doing this:
- The number of ornery ranchers living near off the grid in the far West with cavalier attitudes towards endangered species laws, game laws, range fees and with selective views about what is, or is not "government assistance" are dwindling yearly. Their children just dont want the hard lifestyle. In many cases, the best move is to just wait them out, though it may take another generation. Bundy's usage of that range could have been grandfathered- providing he pays the fees.
- In this case, the two ranchers were convicted, sentenced, served their time and had been released. Yet, the government then has them re-arrested and re-sentenced to more time.
It is almost like the government want to provoke the category ones and twos that you vividly describe. Maybe the whole thing is designed to smoke out the wackos, and lead them into a honey pot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodmockingbird
The big industry, however, is in paid informants who use any sort of trickery, hysterical videos, and inflammatory language to entirely lead some unstable slob to commit himself to a criminal act on video -- and the informant gets paid a stipend for each 'case' they can set up and incriminate. OR the 'paid informant' is himself getting 'paid' via a reduction in prison time for 'cooperation'. Sadly, they often prey upon people with actual mental disabilities.
Another excellent point. The "Chicago 7" jihaders come to mind. Some of them were dim witted to begin with and then so spaced on dope that they did not even know that they had converted to Islam let alone entered into a "jihad pact".
Then factor in Eric Mcdavid (left wing eco dreamer who runs into a professional informant. After a certain amount of contrived situations, peer pressure and promises of future uhmm..."booty", he agrees in general terms to go on an eco jihad. Gets arrested with in days and then gets a twenty year prison sentence with out any "booty").
Then, the Newburgh Sting. Small time habitual criminals and big talking wanna'be moslems are gradually induced by an informant to jihad. Of course, their road to jihad is deliberately mapped to increase future prison sentences.
Last edited by Cryptic; 01-04-2016 at 09:32 AM..
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